The theme seems to be “reduce operating spending, increase capital spending”. We’ll see how that will blow over with the opposition.

  • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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    11 days ago

    Dollars are not scarce items; the government can issue currency essentially at will.

    Edit: You CAN drink a small amount of bleach. Just like you CAN print money during a generational event.

    A small amount of bleach will burn a bit. A small amount of printing money caused inflation that we also haven’t seen in decades. It hurts families now but that’s the price we paid to help during covid.

        • patatas@sh.itjust.works
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          9 days ago

          Sorry, but if the first claim is that government spending is inflationary, then there’s no way to claim that taxes aren’t disinflationary.

          • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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            8 days ago

            Lol, wait, what?

            Just… Walk me through how you think this would work, say as Canada’s inflation rate hit 8% in summer 2022. Who would you have taxed, what would you have done with said taxes and why you think this would somehow lower inflation?

              • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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                4 days ago

                I get the misunderstanding now! I figured it was something similar to this, which is why I asked whom you would tax and what you would do with the taxes.

                So, a handful of things. First, this is a theory that is pretty much rejected by almost every mainstream economist (it’s rare you see both the Chicago school of economics and Paul Krugman on the same side but here we are.) You might take a quick google at Modern Monetary Theory critiques.

                But, ignoring that, if you dive into the theory a bit, you’ll see it doesn’t work as you’ve outlined. Looking back to your original point “Dollars are not scarce items; the government can issue currency essentially at will. Taxes aren’t there to fund services. They exist to reduce inequality.”

                In the MMT, taxes both fund services (say, the CERB) as well as help stabilize inflation. So, in your CERB example, sure, government prints a bunch of money which would cause inflation and then, you’re now saying the government should just tax it back to get to a neutral rate. Which, fine, tax the CERB back. But then what was the point of issuing it in the first place? If the answer is “well we just tax the rich” then what’s the point of printing a bunch of currency instead of just using the tax proceeds from the rich?

                To quote Kelton:

                That means the government then has to start slowing it’s rate of spending, or you can open up the drain and let some of those dollars out of the economy. And that’s what we do when we collect taxes.

                So, to stop the inflation caused by government spending on CERB, we just tax the money back and hold onto it (instead of using it on services, otherwise you’re back to the same inflationary pressures.) In essence, you’ve just changed all the programs from help to those who needed it, to a predatory loan.

                • patatas@sh.itjust.works
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                  4 days ago

                  Krugman has come around on it over the last few years actually, through discussions with noted MMT proponents Rohan Grey and Nathan Tankus. So you might want to search for more recent stuff.

                  In the MMT, taxes both fund services

                  incorrect, in MMT taxes remove money from the economy

                  In your CERB example, there are a lot of factors involved. One is that there really were supply chain disruptions as spending shifted from services to material goods, combined with a lot of intentional price gouging as inflation narratives took hold.

                  Neither these phenomena nor the disinflationary effect of taxation are immediate or direct in their effects, so I definitely feel for policymakers when crises like these hit.

                  But we’re now very far from the original point, and you seem to be pointing to an exceptional circumstance to try to prove a generality, as well as trying to claim I’m saying things about that exceptional circumstance that haven’t said.

                  • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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                    4 days ago

                    Krugman has come around on it over the last few years actually, through discussions with noted MMT proponents Rohan Grey and Nathan Tankus

                    Can you share anything to this end? I’ve looked and found a couple of interviews with Tankus but nothing that at a glance would seem to change Krugman’s assertion that MMT is essentially Calvinball. (I’d rather not read through all their chats.)

                    But we’re now very far from the original point, and you seem to be pointing to an exceptional circumstance to try to prove a generality

                    Pal, you were the one to bring up Covid/CERB as your first defense of printing money!

                    It’s literally how we dealt with the first phase of the Covid pandemic. Was keeping millions of Canadians from being evicted a bad idea?

                    But at the end of the day, whether the program happened in a pandemic or not, the core issue remains. Governments have deficits to cover spending, e.g., on public servant salaries. According to MMT, this isn’t an issue because you just print money to pay your debts and then tax money out of the system to prevent inflation. Which, groovy but that spending was there for a reason! Like, okay, keep the salaries but then what, just tax everyone else more? You’ve just created austerity with more steps.