Why do we keep putting billions of dollars into a dying industry? We literally just bought a pipeline, we dont need more. I really hate this country sometimes.
We’re going to fall behind on renewables because the elites are so shortsighted.
They are not short sighted. They just don’t give a shit about you or the country.
This type of thing isn’t a team sport. If the country goes to shit they will just move somewhere less shit.
What part of it is dying? The demand for natural gas, keeps going up. We literally had two countries come to us when Russia shut down their gas lines, asking us to supply them and our (not so smart) PM at the time not only said no, but that there was ‘no business case’ for shipping more gas. Im pretty sure when there’s a customer knocking on your shop door asking when you’re gonna open up that there’s a business case.
Everyone, before responding to this person, be advised that this is a climate change “skeptic” who shills for the Oil and Gas industry and spouts doomerist propaganda that any anti-emissions policy in Canada is pointless because we are “only” producing 1.5% of global emissions.
Glad you warned ‘everyone’ about my ‘doomerist propaganda’.
Or maybe I just think for myself, look at the facts as best as they can be determined, and don’t buy into the ‘doom and gloom’ propaganda that says we’re all going to be dead from climate change in the next few years.
I didnt say ANY emissions policy in Canada is pointless. REASONABLE and moderate policy is fine, but things like requiring all cars sold in Canada to be EVs by 2035 are just ridiculous and wrong headed, especially in Canada.
You are right, but their is no future for it. Combustibles need to be eliminated from our energy markets. They are harming us and the entire planet we need to live. Huge expense for small time gains is bad leadership. If the markets were nationalized, I would be more excited to get more to market, even with what I said. It is not. We don’t need to help foreign entities take our resources faster for a pittance in tax benefits. Fuck that noise.
If a cold country is asking for our gas, especially to eliminate dependence on a hostile foreign regime, that is definitely a worldwide improvement and harm reduction for millions of people. Its wishful thinking to say ‘eliminate it’ but thats not going to happen overnight, if ever, in some countries. If we have the resource NOW and they need it NOW, then its in their best interest AND ours to sell it to them now.
Did you miss the part where I said we don’t get enough return for it to build infrastructure for it. We already bought a pipeline for $4B dollars that we didn’t want. They need it now, we need it tomorrow.
Who is the “we” that didn’t want the Trans Mountain pipeline? Would that be the Gov of Canada that gets about 1.25 billion in revenue this year from the pipeline? Would that be the 15,000 well paid employees that built and run the pipeline? Would that be the AB and BC gov’s who gain a lot of income tax from those employees? Would that be the people in China, South Korea, Japan, and India who buy most of that oil so they don’t have to burn coal to power their industries and don’t have to rely on shady countries like Russia? Or is it Quebecers who benefit from 14 BILLION a year in transfer payments, the vast majority of which comes from Alberta’s oil revenues? Which “we” are we referring to?
As Marx said, “A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with.” You’re argument is only valid if you believe anthropogenic global warming isn’t real. If it is, and all the science indicates it is, then the business case is only valid in the short term, with massive penalties in 15 to 40 years.
Businesses make decisions based on the next quarter. Countries tend to have to look at the next decade.
Well, to be honest I think anthropogenic global warming is only half real. I used to live on Hawaii island and during the massive lava flow of 2018 it inundated my side of the island and I watched literally BILLIONS of gallons of lava, ash and volcanic gasses spew out of multiple vents for 3.5 months. That volcano has been continuously erupting for nearly 35 years and it recently has been spewing massive volumes again.
Kilauea volcano is part of the Ring of Fire - about 40,000 km long and up to about 500 km wide, and contains about 750 volcanoes. I have a very hard time believing that my little put put car is what’s causing most of global warming when I have witnessed the incredible volume of gas coming out of the earth.
Imagine a lake, say the one below Niagara Falls. Water flows in, and water flows out. It seems impossible that lake could ever flood bases on the puny efforts of humanity, doesn’t it? But, if you upset the balance, either adding too much water, or taking away too much, that lake will flood or nearly disappear. And it doesn’t take the volume of Niagara Falls to make that happen, just more, or less, than the existing system can handle. And it may not happen in a day, or even in a year. But that’s okay, we’ve been putting carbon dioxide from fossil fuels into the atmosphere for a couple centuries.
Our planet has had volcanoes since it had a surface for volcanoes to erupt from. The carbon in that oil hasn’t been interacting with our atmosphere for a long time. And it’s true that the planet, and life on it, will continue if we released all of it. But evolution is generally very slow at adapting, and when it’s fast it’s usually because the things that can’t handle the change die off to make way for species that are more fit for the new environment than the current ones. One of those creatures that could die off, or have a massive die-back before recovering, is humanity, and I’d rather my species not have to go through that.
And no, your single car doesn’t produce much. A single mosquito doesn’t kill many people, either. But there are millions of cars just like yours, just like there are billions of mosquitoes spreading disease to humans, killing millions every year. So, even though a barrel of crude oil is only the equivalent to about half a ton of atmospheric CO2, those 35 billion barrels of oil per year gives us about 16 billion tons of CO2. All of that above and beyond the relatively stable environment we’ve had the last 5000 years or so. And by the way, volcanoes are estimated to emit about half a billion tons of CO2 per year, whereas humans emit about 35 billion tons, about half of that from oil alone. Sure, your little car doesn’t look like much, and the smog in a big city isn’t that much compared to what a volcanoes puts out on a good day, but that’s mostly because that volcano is doing all that emitting in one place. Oil wells would look pretty impressive, too, if we burned everything we were pumping as soon as we had it out of the ground.
This will die in court. The “red tape elimination” they did will simply result in an unending string of lawsuits.
The fuck it is!
Mark Carney is destroying our future!
He is and is still our best option until we push for election reform to introduce ranked choice and proportional representation. Lest we get forever stuck with Neo-liberals tilting ever closer to Nuremberg rejects.
Nope, he played on the fearmongering of a PP government. We need more regional parties to break the 2-party grip on Canadians.
Like an Alberta separatist party? Seriously?
Yukon started their own party and decimated both the liberals and conservatives in the territorial/provincial election.
Goes to show that it is possible.
And exactly how do you get that in the current system we have without reform? I’m not saying he’s good I’m saying that if we try to keep doing this same song and dance without reform, we’re fools.
He fearmongered far more on the ‘threat’ of Trump. That was the main point of his campaign and people actually believed that the US might invade Canada during the campaign. Its amazing what people will fall for - totally ignoring the fact that Trump is blustering loudmouth who will say anything as long as it gets him attention.
No he’s not! He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He’s one of the most conservative neo-liberal leader the Liberal Party of Canada ever had yet. He’s our worst option because he looks and talks like a Liberal, but acts like a Conservative and people don’t realize it.
His budget is going to fuck Canadians over further even worst than in the Mulroney era.
Okay, then what’s the realistic better option? To be clear I’m not saying he’s doing a good job, I’m just concerned that if you try to push people away from voting for the lesser of two evils you may just end up with the greater one as seen in the United States’ recent best hits.
Which is why I think election reform is our best bet at getting something better.
NDP. They’re the better option. And we have minority governments here. Even if the conservatives had won as a minority, having a strong NDP to oppose them and require compromises would have been better. A budget like the one Carney presented wouldn’t have passed.
Yes but I said realistic. NDP won’t happen with our current system, much better chance with election reform.
I bet it would if younger people bothered to go vote or if voting was mandatory and/or proportional.
Maybe but we have to work with what we have, believe me, we’re on the same side, just trying to avoid a conservative majority
Fuck I hope the next Québec government blocks the fuck out of this.
So, block the main income producer in western Canada, so that the province that imports its oil and gas from other countries and has an abundance of hydroelectric as IT’S main natural resource can be happy?
Yup, that’s exactly the kind of attitude that has made western Canada so resentful. Especially when we know we’re sending that ‘blocking’ province 14 billion a year out of the revenues of the resource they love to block. Make it make sense.
You mean, the same industry that’s behind all the global warming related climate catastrophies that we’ve been facing year over year and responsible for Canadian forests burning from East to West year over year for the past 3 years??? Thar industry? The one that we’re supposed to ramp down production to use alternative energies that are less impactful on the environment?
Maybe they should invest in other industries like green energy or other more sustainable industries.
You know that global climate change is actually GLOBAL, right? So 98.5% of the planet’s emissions do not come from Canada. And of the tiny amount that does, its less than half coming from oil and gas. That 0.7% is a rounding error in a computation that greatly depends on what’s input.
Canada’s O and G sector is NOT the great demon you’re making it out to be - it’s barely a factor in climate change. If you REALLY want to make a change, chase the countries who are major polluters - China and the US - you know, the two places that produce almost ALL the goods you buy and consume. Start with boycotting all your purchases from those two countries and I’ll believe you actually care about climate change.
I’m sorry, but that is such a shitty take. So because we’re not the biggest polluters, we shouldn’t make any effort to curb our emissions? Even if climate scientists are warning us that right now we need to drastically cut oil production, we shouldn’t take any initiatives if no one else does?
What the fuck man?
Canada is in the top 10 largest emitters of greenhouse gasses in the world. In 2023 we produced approx 800 million tons of of carbon emissions. Just behind Saudi Arabia. (Source)
Also take a look at this chart from the government of Canada about greenhouse gas emissions from large facilities and look how many are from Alberta. Especially red ones. The biggest emittors are located mostly in Alberta and southern Ontario. We can take a guess at what industries those are related to.
Per capita, we emit way too much pollution per person.
Also we had an engagement to reach certain goals according to the Paris Climate Change Agreement and instead of following through, we basically told everyone we’d stop trying. Along with many other countries. Those goals were important to avoid a drastic increase of global temperatures. And look at where we are now. There’s essentially no turning back. The climate is going to be fucked for good and we need to brace to deal with the consequences.
If a fishing boat is sinking because there are two big guys sitting on the stern and scooping 5 gallon buckets of water into it as fast as they can, its absolutely pointless to yell at the guy at the bow dribbling it in with a teaspoon, “Do your part and use a thimble instead!”
The only way to make any measurable difference in emissions is to slow down or stop those two guys with the buckets.
The world isn’t ‘sinking’ because Canada isn’t doing enough. Its sinking because we support and buy every product that China and the US produce and our multinational companies and gov leaders have no intention of stopping that and Canadians have very little desire to pay more for goods that cost more but pollute less. If you shop at Amazon, Walmart, Temu, Alibaba, Aliexpress you’re the reason we’re sinking.
In your analogy, we’re also using a bucket. Not a spoon. And on top of that, we’re helping the other guys as well is what you’re saying.
Don’t spend too much effort there. They explained in this very thread that they don’t believe anthropogenic climate change is what the actual scientists working on this are telling us it is, with another shitty comparison (because a volcano feels like it’s doing much more than humans).
You cannot reason people out of something they were not reasoned into.
1.5% for Canada’s emissions.
38% just from two countries - China and the US. Throw in India and its 44% of global emissions. From 3 countries out of 195.
98.5% of global emissions are NOT from Canada. We are barely a teaspoon.
