The problem is that with all of your counter points, you keep talking about “reason”. This is politics, Doug Ford wouldn’t still be in charge if people voted on reason. You keep making the same problem that the NDP has been making in expecting the whole population to use reason and think rationally as well. They don’t, and you and the rest of the party leadership need to realize that.
The charisma thing is a real consideration, because the NDP have proven they need that to be able to get ahead of the other two parties. Everyone has spoken to Jacks charisma being the one thing that got the NDP as close as they’ve been, but now you are telling me that charisma isn’t important? Especially when they’re trying to rebuild the party? I’m sorry but we will be in complete disagreement on that one. Pierre doesn’t need charisma, he’s at the head of the other party that won’t raise taxes in the masses, so hence not being in the NDPs tough spot.
I tried using the term “Human Rights” because that’s what I believe them to be, but a lot of the people I was referring to, would call them “identity politics”. I’m sorry to say it, because I’d rather acceptance be the default as well, but people who would otherwise support the NDP didn’t this election cycle due to all of the noise around identity politics. I’m also from Ottawa, so I’m sure you know the Lanark county types I’m referring to, I grew up around them.
It’s just an uphill battle to rebuild a party, and I’m not sure how the leadership hopefuls will manage to pull it off. My fingers are crossed for them, I’ve always been an NDP supporter but want to feel like I’m not just throwing my vote in the trash. Even in my “always NDP” riding it went red last time. I just want to see them get back to the basics (hence Ashton being my hopeful til the AI thing)
I’m literally telling you that I’m pissed because people do not do the reasonable thing. I am well aware that reason is hard to come by and I am saying that right now. You are deliberately missing the point to try to justify your bad decisions and shitty opinions and I’m really not here for that kind of poor behaviour.
“My fingers are crossed for them” well you’re gunna have to do more than that if you want that to be anything more than a few empty words that are only even there so that you can pretend as if you’re being polite. Considering how hard you’re trying to justify the Liberals, though, maybe genuine effort is not something you really understand.
I never asked you to do anything, you just showed up and started making excuses.
Also, you are the masses, and so am I. You can’t just wait for things to be better to start making progress, you have to put the effort in before it’s easy. I don’t vote for the NDP because I think they’re gunna win in the next election, I vote for them because they align the most with my views and because if I jump ship on them now then how will they ever have the support to be better later? How could we change public opinion on their electability by broadcasting a message that would say that we don’t believe they’re electable?
Dude, I’ve worked on Hardens campaign here in Ottawa. I know the actual challenges to reaching out to the masses, and while jaded, I still work on the actual problems, and try and reach out. It’s still just a fact of the matter that a large amount of the voting base is afraid to put the vote behind the NDP out of fear of the Conservatives.
You’re spouting a lot of platitudes on here, which I can appreciate being fired up about, but you’re going at it in a completely aggressive and ineffective way. Going after people in our own party is a terrible use of your own time, and not constructive at all.
I appreciate that, but I have very clearly laid out that I’m pissed off at the people who claim to be progressive but who keep voting for a party which continually moves rightward. I’m pissed off because, well before you showed up to my comments here, I was talking about how if we want to see progress we need to actually support that progress with hard numbers. I very clearly explained that the reason I’m mad is because people think they’re voting for an imperfect center-left party to save themselves from the Conservatives but if they so afraid then they may want to know that the Liberals are doing a lot of the same shit. I don’t give a fuck about their fear because that excuse is worthless in this context.
You just wandered in telling me that I’m wrong and then went off about a bunch of shit I responded to with clear answers. I’m not stupifd, I’m explaining why I’m frustrated and I can do that without needing to do all the emotional labour to make people comfortable with their incredibly poor, ill-informed choices.
The problem is that with all of your counter points, you keep talking about “reason”. This is politics, Doug Ford wouldn’t still be in charge if people voted on reason. You keep making the same problem that the NDP has been making in expecting the whole population to use reason and think rationally as well. They don’t, and you and the rest of the party leadership need to realize that.
The charisma thing is a real consideration, because the NDP have proven they need that to be able to get ahead of the other two parties. Everyone has spoken to Jacks charisma being the one thing that got the NDP as close as they’ve been, but now you are telling me that charisma isn’t important? Especially when they’re trying to rebuild the party? I’m sorry but we will be in complete disagreement on that one. Pierre doesn’t need charisma, he’s at the head of the other party that won’t raise taxes in the masses, so hence not being in the NDPs tough spot.
I tried using the term “Human Rights” because that’s what I believe them to be, but a lot of the people I was referring to, would call them “identity politics”. I’m sorry to say it, because I’d rather acceptance be the default as well, but people who would otherwise support the NDP didn’t this election cycle due to all of the noise around identity politics. I’m also from Ottawa, so I’m sure you know the Lanark county types I’m referring to, I grew up around them.
It’s just an uphill battle to rebuild a party, and I’m not sure how the leadership hopefuls will manage to pull it off. My fingers are crossed for them, I’ve always been an NDP supporter but want to feel like I’m not just throwing my vote in the trash. Even in my “always NDP” riding it went red last time. I just want to see them get back to the basics (hence Ashton being my hopeful til the AI thing)
I’m literally telling you that I’m pissed because people do not do the reasonable thing. I am well aware that reason is hard to come by and I am saying that right now. You are deliberately missing the point to try to justify your bad decisions and shitty opinions and I’m really not here for that kind of poor behaviour.
“My fingers are crossed for them” well you’re gunna have to do more than that if you want that to be anything more than a few empty words that are only even there so that you can pretend as if you’re being polite. Considering how hard you’re trying to justify the Liberals, though, maybe genuine effort is not something you really understand.
Dude I can’t control the masses, I don’t know what you want me to do?
I never asked you to do anything, you just showed up and started making excuses.
Also, you are the masses, and so am I. You can’t just wait for things to be better to start making progress, you have to put the effort in before it’s easy. I don’t vote for the NDP because I think they’re gunna win in the next election, I vote for them because they align the most with my views and because if I jump ship on them now then how will they ever have the support to be better later? How could we change public opinion on their electability by broadcasting a message that would say that we don’t believe they’re electable?
Dude, I’ve worked on Hardens campaign here in Ottawa. I know the actual challenges to reaching out to the masses, and while jaded, I still work on the actual problems, and try and reach out. It’s still just a fact of the matter that a large amount of the voting base is afraid to put the vote behind the NDP out of fear of the Conservatives.
You’re spouting a lot of platitudes on here, which I can appreciate being fired up about, but you’re going at it in a completely aggressive and ineffective way. Going after people in our own party is a terrible use of your own time, and not constructive at all.
I appreciate that, but I have very clearly laid out that I’m pissed off at the people who claim to be progressive but who keep voting for a party which continually moves rightward. I’m pissed off because, well before you showed up to my comments here, I was talking about how if we want to see progress we need to actually support that progress with hard numbers. I very clearly explained that the reason I’m mad is because people think they’re voting for an imperfect center-left party to save themselves from the Conservatives but if they so afraid then they may want to know that the Liberals are doing a lot of the same shit. I don’t give a fuck about their fear because that excuse is worthless in this context.
You just wandered in telling me that I’m wrong and then went off about a bunch of shit I responded to with clear answers. I’m not stupifd, I’m explaining why I’m frustrated and I can do that without needing to do all the emotional labour to make people comfortable with their incredibly poor, ill-informed choices.