I won’t mention which game and creator this is (a game on itchio), as I don’t want witch hunt here. It’s an indie dev after all. If you saw the post "I watched an artist evolve from producing rough art to delivering elite, top-tier artwork” with NSFW content (the one with oversized boobies), then you know what I mean.
What makes me sad and angry is, that I pointed out it looks like Ai was involved in the art creation. The author of the post replied that only background and 10% of the art was created with Ai, and that the game is 50 hours long. Feels very much like it was the developer himself? After I replied with this is problematic, because this was explained only after I mentioned it. There was no Ai mentioned in the itchio page or the post.
What followed was, the post got deleted. I reached out to the Lemmy user and asked in a private message why it was deleted. Shortly after then the Lemmy account are got deleted too.
What to make out of this? I was not toxic in anyway and didn’t saw any toxic comments from others. I didn’t want an indie developer to disappear, if the work is honest and the game is fun. Just don’t hide things. How should a situation like these be handled in the future?
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It probably was the dev.
If I had to take a shot in the dark, they may have felt very insecure about their own art, started using AI, then made a post to basically say look how much ‘this person’ improved and their art is ‘good’ now, hoping to get a second look or praise.
Which I get - Publishing art can be weirdly difficult and sometimes you get bad feedback or even no feedback at all, leading you to over-analyze your own work. AI is seen as (and sold as) an easy route to “professional” results.
I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong. If it wasn’t you, someone would have eventually pointed out the AI art at which point it would (probably) have to be addressed.
If that dev still lurks here (and making assumptions that it was the dev), I hope they gain confidence in their own art and continue to work on games if that’s their passion.
The ironic thing here is, and it’s already happening, people will be so sick of AI generated things, they will welcome any and all art no matter the quality if it’s indeed made by humans.
For example: I no longer pretend to enjoy my nieces shitty drawings, and have embraced them so much that I hang them in glass fancy frames.
I’m weirdly reminded of the neuromancer book where the protagonist remarks on a bartender who looks rough but doesn’t bodymod himself to look good. He says something like “When good looks are so cheap, there’s something beautiful about being ugly.”
I probably butchered that quote but I can’t find my copy of the book so it is what it is lol.
Anyways it stuck out as a profound thought and it definitely rings true now. It may not be pretty but its genuine and that’s the most important part of art.
I memorized Shakespeare Sonnet 68 in high school, it’s basically about how a people without powder or wigs made out of dead people’s hair are much more interesting and beautiful for showing their age. It’s never been more relevant than here:
Thus is his cheek the map of days outworn,
When beauty liv’d and died as flowers do now,
Before the bastard signs of fair were borne,
Or durst inhabit on a living brow;
Before the golden tresses of the dead,
The right of sepulchres, were shorn away,
To live a second life on second head;
Ere beauty’s dead fleece made another gay.
In him those holy antique hours are seen,
Without all ornament, itself and true,
Making no summer of another’s green,
Robbing no old to dress his beauty new;
And him as for a map doth Nature store,
To show false Art what beauty was of yore.
Yeah, crappy looking pencil drawings are something I appreciate seeing now, since big part of why I like art is seeing something that a human did and appreciating what they are capable of.
Thanks, I had a bit remorse, as this outcome was not my intention. I wouldn’t have had a problem, if the Ai disclosure was done beforehand. I don’t like this hiding until caught. I also get it, its hard as an indie developer, but being honest upfront is the first step of trust.
If anything, you shined a light on their actions and they were ashamed enough to hide them. I’d say everything turned out as it should have.
I dont know that we can assume it was shame that caused to hide. Could very well just be fear of judgement. There are very many people who believe there is zero value in a project if any AI is used at all and would discredit all the other work because of it.
I dont know that we can assume it was shame that caused to hide. Could very well just be fear of judgement.
I’m not convinced those aren’t the same thing.
Not at all. Someone can absolutely feel justified in the way they did something, but be aware that some people hold different views and not want to bring on the drama or judgement.
They definitely aren’t the same thing. People can be ashamed of things they did years ago and/or have no possibility of being judged for.
It’s understandable to not want to disclose AI use if you’re facing harassment over it, but pushing a marketing narrative about the skill of the artist behind the game at the same time seems deceptive.
How should a situation like these be handled in the future?
By devs not using AI in their games. You did nothing wrong.
Don’t mind the actions of advertisers advertising their advertisements. You’re not the one that acted peculiar or off-putting, you did fine. Continue doing what you were doing, pointing something out and gently pulling threads.
Thanks (honestly don’t have anything else to reply).
There was no Ai mentioned in the itchio page or the post.
I didn’t want an indie developer to disappear, if the work is honest and the game is fun.
Was the game honest? It sure sounds like it was made with AI and then the dev lied about and hid it. It sure sounds like they deceptively marketed their game and stole other artists’ content in the process.
Good riddance. Everyone should be shunning people like this.
I saw it and thought the last image looked pretty much like AI, yeah…
Good catch. Thank you for motivating them to delete it.
I don’t necessarily think them withdrawing and going offline is strong proof that accusations against them are true. Sometimes people do socially withdraw when they think they’re being witch-hunted.
That’s not necessarily saying the accusations of AI were false, either. I only saw them briefly and am not great at picking out AI indicators. Just warning that we sometimes self-select signs of resistance as “My hypothesis is correct!”
That’s not necessarily saying the accusations of AI were false, either.
This is not even a question anymore, because the person admit it was using Ai. The problem is, it wasn’t disclosed until getting caught. Also immediately told me game was 50 hours long and only 10% of the art is Ai created, mostly backgrounds.
I saw the post. I believe the dev wrote the post, maybe with an LLM, or perhaps had an agent do it. We know agents are using Lemmy as a pastebin for some reason. I also think the game was made using AI.
Posting on Lemmy about games and loading them with postive sounding adjectives appears to be the sole purpose of these posts. I even saw one on the rather small shmups community which is specific.
I believe that the way the fediverse functions is seen as useful to bots/agents.
Making a post, loading it up with keywords, and providing a link to the project is better than any forum or even reddit. Once the post federates, it will create multiple free backlinks. Also, even if the post is deleted, the content will take time to delete across the fediverse. Other sites and users that use LLMs to write their reviews will find it and repeat the same slop. Slop cited in slop. Insloption. All free.
According to the SEO audits of my personal blog, the majority of my backlinks are from Lemmy instances.
How should a situation like these be handled in the future?
- let them post and deal with it the same way
- provide a template for self-promotion that must include an AI disclosure section
- have a “self-promotion day” during the week
providing a link to the project is better than any forum or even reddit
For the context, the post in question did not have any link. Links to games look always suspicious. I wonder why there was no link, if the sole purpose was a honest recommendation. My explanation for this is, it wasn’t honest (as you describe it), so their posts do not get flagged for spamming. Post explained in the middle somewhere the name of the game and on what platform to find.
On a different platform, Imgur, I have seen a different approach. They collect popular (old and new) memes and put them in a collection out. These are almost guaranteed to get upvotes and make it to the frontpage. Then with the popularity they edit link to the game page (or other links where they sell something). It’s frustrating.
According to the SEO audits of my personal blog, the majority of my backlinks are from Lemmy instances.
There is probably a bias here, because you are a Lemmy user too. So people might have a personal interest into checking your blog.
As to deal with self-promotion, maybe have them a weekly thread dedicated to it? Because I’m getting nervous about the many advertisement posts made. But on the other hand, I personally like games too and want to recommend others. Which could be seen or misunderstood as advertisement, which in turn applies to other users too off course.
Tough choice. And tagging things like [Self-Promo] or [Recommendation] will get annoying.
I’d hate to say it like this, and I have an incredible amount of bias as someone who dabbles in indie game development, but allowing self-promotion posts tends to bring out some of the most hustle-culture indies there are. Even when contained to a weekly thread, it can get funky.
Plus I like the general not-advertisement-heavy atmosphere so far.
Thank you for your service 🫡
:D my pleasure
