The theme seems to be “reduce operating spending, increase capital spending”. We’ll see how that will blow over with the opposition.

  • patatas@sh.itjust.works
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    11 days ago

    Great ok so we at least agree that issuing currency is not the fiscal equivalent of drinking bleach, and that there are good and bad reasons to do it.

    • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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      11 days ago

      Dollars are not scarce items; the government can issue currency essentially at will.

      Edit: You CAN drink a small amount of bleach. Just like you CAN print money during a generational event.

      A small amount of bleach will burn a bit. A small amount of printing money caused inflation that we also haven’t seen in decades. It hurts families now but that’s the price we paid to help during covid.

          • patatas@sh.itjust.works
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            9 days ago

            Sorry, but if the first claim is that government spending is inflationary, then there’s no way to claim that taxes aren’t disinflationary.

            • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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              8 days ago

              Lol, wait, what?

              Just… Walk me through how you think this would work, say as Canada’s inflation rate hit 8% in summer 2022. Who would you have taxed, what would you have done with said taxes and why you think this would somehow lower inflation?

                • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca
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                  4 days ago

                  I get the misunderstanding now! I figured it was something similar to this, which is why I asked whom you would tax and what you would do with the taxes.

                  So, a handful of things. First, this is a theory that is pretty much rejected by almost every mainstream economist (it’s rare you see both the Chicago school of economics and Paul Krugman on the same side but here we are.) You might take a quick google at Modern Monetary Theory critiques.

                  But, ignoring that, if you dive into the theory a bit, you’ll see it doesn’t work as you’ve outlined. Looking back to your original point “Dollars are not scarce items; the government can issue currency essentially at will. Taxes aren’t there to fund services. They exist to reduce inequality.”

                  In the MMT, taxes both fund services (say, the CERB) as well as help stabilize inflation. So, in your CERB example, sure, government prints a bunch of money which would cause inflation and then, you’re now saying the government should just tax it back to get to a neutral rate. Which, fine, tax the CERB back. But then what was the point of issuing it in the first place? If the answer is “well we just tax the rich” then what’s the point of printing a bunch of currency instead of just using the tax proceeds from the rich?

                  To quote Kelton:

                  That means the government then has to start slowing it’s rate of spending, or you can open up the drain and let some of those dollars out of the economy. And that’s what we do when we collect taxes.

                  So, to stop the inflation caused by government spending on CERB, we just tax the money back and hold onto it (instead of using it on services, otherwise you’re back to the same inflationary pressures.) In essence, you’ve just changed all the programs from help to those who needed it, to a predatory loan.

                  • patatas@sh.itjust.works
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                    4 days ago

                    Krugman has come around on it over the last few years actually, through discussions with noted MMT proponents Rohan Grey and Nathan Tankus. So you might want to search for more recent stuff.

                    In the MMT, taxes both fund services

                    incorrect, in MMT taxes remove money from the economy

                    In your CERB example, there are a lot of factors involved. One is that there really were supply chain disruptions as spending shifted from services to material goods, combined with a lot of intentional price gouging as inflation narratives took hold.

                    Neither these phenomena nor the disinflationary effect of taxation are immediate or direct in their effects, so I definitely feel for policymakers when crises like these hit.

                    But we’re now very far from the original point, and you seem to be pointing to an exceptional circumstance to try to prove a generality, as well as trying to claim I’m saying things about that exceptional circumstance that haven’t said.