Treating everyone you disagree with like they’re stupid is coping emotionally. Instead of taking the time to, idk discuss things with people they’ve written them off as dumb before they ever speak to them.
You don’t know fuck all how much I’ve done precisely that. I obsessively debated various political and economic ideologies for like a straight decade of my life in invite-only forums specifically designed for such debate. I changed my own mind over time, and changed other people’s minds. I’ve done it.
But I promise you, the people supporting these ideas proposed by the Trump administration are not just stupid, but WILLINGLY IGNORANT for their own selfish purposes. The amount coursing hatred I feel for them burns like the accretion disc of a quasar.
They are not people I would bother to debate. They are quite literally just my enemy. Mortal enemies. I don’t want middle ground with them. I want something else.
So, and correct me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you - from a series of echo chambers - managed to come to the conclusion that those trapped in echo chambers can’t be convinced they’re wrong?
It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even “sub flavors” of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the “But you’re on the internet, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?” a lot).
It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.
I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.
Interesting, how did everyone else’s perspectives change (or at least what you can remember)? I’m really curious, the more you share about it the less skeptical and more interested I become.
I just wanted to say kudos for actually explaining your position. It’s too easy to make assumptions about what people are saying over text, and a lot of debates end badly because someone decides the other is malicious or willingly/willfully ignorant before they’re even given the opportunity to explain their reasoning.
I 100% agree there are some people that are beyond reasoning with. Their brain is locked in to emotional, irrationally habits, and changing such a fundamental point of view is painful. On the other hand though, I think it’s worthwhile to try and understand their behaviors and what life experiences contributed to their world view. How else can we expect to better educate ourselves and future generations?
Just FYI, it’s wilfully ignorant, not “willingly ignorant”. Not that it matters, but I can see you were trying to make a point but it kind of fell apart at “willingly”. Sorry, I accept my downvotes with dignity. Making comments like this is a thankless job, but someone’s got to do it.
trying to make a point but it kind of fell apart at “willingly”
To me this seems like a pretty minor grammatical error that does nothing to detract from the point being made.
You’re welcome to correct it, but to me it feels analogous to getting distracted by a smudge on the page when reading a letter.
You don’t know fuck all how much I’ve done precisely that. I obsessively debated various political and economic ideologies for like a straight decade of my life in invite-only forums specifically designed for such debate. I changed my own mind over time, and changed other people’s minds. I’ve done it.
But I promise you, the people supporting these ideas proposed by the Trump administration are not just stupid, but WILLINGLY IGNORANT for their own selfish purposes. The amount coursing hatred I feel for them burns like the accretion disc of a quasar.
They are not people I would bother to debate. They are quite literally just my enemy. Mortal enemies. I don’t want middle ground with them. I want something else.
So, and correct me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you - from a series of echo chambers - managed to come to the conclusion that those trapped in echo chambers can’t be convinced they’re wrong?
Am I reading that correctly?
It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even “sub flavors” of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the “But you’re on the internet, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?” a lot).
It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.
Ah, ok - that makes more sense. What was the goal? Simply a realm for debate?
I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.
Interesting, how did everyone else’s perspectives change (or at least what you can remember)? I’m really curious, the more you share about it the less skeptical and more interested I become.
I just wanted to say kudos for actually explaining your position. It’s too easy to make assumptions about what people are saying over text, and a lot of debates end badly because someone decides the other is malicious or willingly/willfully ignorant before they’re even given the opportunity to explain their reasoning.
I 100% agree there are some people that are beyond reasoning with. Their brain is locked in to emotional, irrationally habits, and changing such a fundamental point of view is painful. On the other hand though, I think it’s worthwhile to try and understand their behaviors and what life experiences contributed to their world view. How else can we expect to better educate ourselves and future generations?
Just FYI, it’s wilfully ignorant, not “willingly ignorant”. Not that it matters, but I can see you were trying to make a point but it kind of fell apart at “willingly”. Sorry, I accept my downvotes with dignity. Making comments like this is a thankless job, but someone’s got to do it.
To me this seems like a pretty minor grammatical error that does nothing to detract from the point being made.
You’re welcome to correct it, but to me it feels analogous to getting distracted by a smudge on the page when reading a letter.