I hope Dale there realizes that pretty much every one of his American friends voted for Trump. Maybe that’s why he’s leaving. Two-faced liars don’t make great friends.
While I agree with your emotion, let’s please also not abandon facts.
One in three Americans voted for Trump. So we cannot with any certainty say that any American individual did.
That said, as a group, they did elect him. One third voted for him and one third did not voted—allowing him to win. So I agree completely that they elected him and they do not get a pass for that.
Or in more effective terms, only one third of Americans voted against Trump.
Counting votes against eligible voters instead of votes cast isn’t the win you think it is.
No one here needs a reminder that 2/3 isn’t 3/3, thanks.
america, the collective group, is treating the world as an enemy… the only way we can deal with this is to treat the collective group also as an enemy, for the most part
if you think that’s unfair, well, congratulations imagine how canada, europe, australia (who has a trade surplus and still has tariffs because apparently we have to make up the deficit for the rest of the world) feels about the situation
we are angry, every american should be angry, and come time for the next election EVERY SINGLE ANERICAN needs to FEEL like the world is angry AT THEM so that this time they FUCKING VOTE rather than spewing apathetic “both sides” bullshit
“Don’t assume a specific individual isn’t among the 30% who tried” isn’t a “both sides” argument. Neither is there any pragmatism in proactively excluding someone who might already be your ally, nor in purity testing those who wish to be.
No matter how angry you are today, that anger will fade. I hope your decisions are being driven by something more steadfast.
Less than one‐third of all Americans who can vote actually cast their ballots for Trump. In fact, in every presidential race he’s run, he hasn’t ever reached a point where more than half of eligible voters in any state voted for him.
Because one will deport innocent people to torture prison and the other one won’t?
Or have you convinced yourself that Kamala would’ve done these things? That’s a rhetorical question, don’t bother repeating bullshit internet rationalizations for why you couldn’t be bothered to take a few hours to go vote against fascism.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Voting for a party is a form of acknowledging you agree with the party. A lot of people don’t agree with either party (and I know there are other parties in theory, practically speaking, there are two). The Republican Party is terrible but so is the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party and it would make sense to vote for Democratic Party to prevent the Republican Party from taking power. But I can appreciate people not wanting to explicitly support the Democratic Party either. Democratic politicians do as much insider trading and take as many legal bribes as Republican politicians. The US political system rewards bad behaviour. Not voting doesn’t signal that people are happy either way, it could as easily signal that people are sad either way.
This comment is an excellent example of the kind of BS that helped Trump win.
John Stuart Mill in 1867 said: “Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”
I’m not justifying not voting, I’m explaining that not voting doesn’t mean “I’m happy either way”. If you were a Palestinian and watched the Democratic party continue to arm the Israeli Defence Forces as they targeted civilians, you might find it hard to give them your vote, even though the alternative is worse. Have more compassion.
And this is the bullshit reasoning that got us into this mess.
The time to have principles is in the Primary, where you and your buddies go out and convince the rest of the Democratic leaning people that maybe we should impress AOC or some other leftie to run in the Primaries, then convince people in places like this to vote for that leftie in the Primary. Once the Primary happens, you have to weigh what happened and will happen, and vote accordingly. By not voting, the people you’re insisting I have compassion for voted for the Shitgibbon and everything he has done. Harris might have continued funding the IDF, but because of the people you’re sucking up to here, Trump is directly supporting the genocide with an eye for preemo real-estate after it’s said and done.
Don’t be stupid and enable that cruelty. Wait. Too late for that~!
You’re arguing for the both sides are the same front while saying “have more compassion”. It’s worse end of story, the present situation is worse. This situation has been caused by apathetic voters. Cause and effect.
Not voting doesn’t signal that people are happy either way, it could as easily signal that people are sad either way.
Being “sad either way” is equally stupid. Feel free to argue that both options are bad but anyone with two braincells should be able to understand that one option is worse. Choosing to abstain is choosing to enable the worse option. Vote independent if you want, but fucking vote.
Doesn’t that point to voter apathy and not towards voter disapproval of Trump? Yes, he didn’t get a majority of eligible voters, but neither does any candidate in Canada.
Most of us just don’t vote at all, so candidates often win with ~35% of the vote. That doesn’t mean there’s any sort of significant mass disapproval of any particular candidate, it just means that voters recognize that FPTP systems result in specific outcomes that disincentivize voting (because a significant number of votes don’t elect anybody).
I agree there is a lot of voter apathy. But I can appreciate the perspective, a two party system becomes about choosing the least shit candidate. The US has one more political party than North Korea, it’s the illusion of choice when the vast majority of eligible voters have no say in who those two candidates are. The system is flawed and the only people that can change the system benefit from the status quo. So while I don’t agree with it, I can appreciate people wanting to disengage from politics in the US.
Trump was in the usual kind of range for winning presidential candidates’ percentage of the popular vote across the USA. By that measure he’s just as popular as many other presidents. I don’t know how he compares state by state to previous presidents.
I assume the majority of folks in Florida retirement communities voted for Trump but Dale’s property was in Arizona and I doubt it was in a retirement community.
I hope Dale there realizes that pretty much every one of his American friends voted for Trump. Maybe that’s why he’s leaving. Two-faced liars don’t make great friends.
That’s not true, only a minority of Americans voted for Trump in 2024.
There are a lot of states that voted for Trump 3 fucking times.
They don’t get the benefit of the doubt any more.
While I agree with your emotion, let’s please also not abandon facts.
One in three Americans voted for Trump. So we cannot with any certainty say that any American individual did.
That said, as a group, they did elect him. One third voted for him and one third did not voted—allowing him to win. So I agree completely that they elected him and they do not get a pass for that.
However, I do not know how any individual voted.
Or in more effective terms, only one third of Americans voted against Trump. Counting votes against eligible voters instead of votes cast isn’t the win you think it is.
No one here needs a reminder that 2/3 isn’t 3/3, thanks.
The principle remains: judge the group for its collective behavior, but don’t stereotype the individual.
america, the collective group, is treating the world as an enemy… the only way we can deal with this is to treat the collective group also as an enemy, for the most part
if you think that’s unfair, well, congratulations imagine how canada, europe, australia (who has a trade surplus and still has tariffs because apparently we have to make up the deficit for the rest of the world) feels about the situation
we are angry, every american should be angry, and come time for the next election EVERY SINGLE ANERICAN needs to FEEL like the world is angry AT THEM so that this time they FUCKING VOTE rather than spewing apathetic “both sides” bullshit
“Don’t assume a specific individual isn’t among the 30% who tried” isn’t a “both sides” argument. Neither is there any pragmatism in proactively excluding someone who might already be your ally, nor in purity testing those who wish to be.
No matter how angry you are today, that anger will fade. I hope your decisions are being driven by something more steadfast.
Less than one‐third of all Americans who can vote actually cast their ballots for Trump. In fact, in every presidential race he’s run, he hasn’t ever reached a point where more than half of eligible voters in any state voted for him.
The third that didn’t vote essentially said “I’m happy either way”. I don’t think that’s much better.
or… they said “Neither party fights for me. Both are trying to screw me over. Why should I support either one?”
Because one will deport innocent people to torture prison and the other one won’t?
Or have you convinced yourself that Kamala would’ve done these things? That’s a rhetorical question, don’t bother repeating bullshit internet rationalizations for why you couldn’t be bothered to take a few hours to go vote against fascism.
I mean… Biden did that, why wouldn’t Kamala have done the same? She promised to continue the Biden policies.
And FWIW, I did vote against fascism
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Voting for a party is a form of acknowledging you agree with the party. A lot of people don’t agree with either party (and I know there are other parties in theory, practically speaking, there are two). The Republican Party is terrible but so is the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party and it would make sense to vote for Democratic Party to prevent the Republican Party from taking power. But I can appreciate people not wanting to explicitly support the Democratic Party either. Democratic politicians do as much insider trading and take as many legal bribes as Republican politicians. The US political system rewards bad behaviour. Not voting doesn’t signal that people are happy either way, it could as easily signal that people are sad either way.
This comment is an excellent example of the kind of BS that helped Trump win.
John Stuart Mill in 1867 said: “Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”
I’m not justifying not voting, I’m explaining that not voting doesn’t mean “I’m happy either way”. If you were a Palestinian and watched the Democratic party continue to arm the Israeli Defence Forces as they targeted civilians, you might find it hard to give them your vote, even though the alternative is worse. Have more compassion.
And this is the bullshit reasoning that got us into this mess.
The time to have principles is in the Primary, where you and your buddies go out and convince the rest of the Democratic leaning people that maybe we should impress AOC or some other leftie to run in the Primaries, then convince people in places like this to vote for that leftie in the Primary. Once the Primary happens, you have to weigh what happened and will happen, and vote accordingly. By not voting, the people you’re insisting I have compassion for voted for the Shitgibbon and everything he has done. Harris might have continued funding the IDF, but because of the people you’re sucking up to here, Trump is directly supporting the genocide with an eye for preemo real-estate after it’s said and done.
Don’t be stupid and enable that cruelty. Wait. Too late for that~!
You’re arguing for the both sides are the same front while saying “have more compassion”. It’s worse end of story, the present situation is worse. This situation has been caused by apathetic voters. Cause and effect.
Being “sad either way” is equally stupid. Feel free to argue that both options are bad but anyone with two braincells should be able to understand that one option is worse. Choosing to abstain is choosing to enable the worse option. Vote independent if you want, but fucking vote.
Doesn’t that point to voter apathy and not towards voter disapproval of Trump? Yes, he didn’t get a majority of eligible voters, but neither does any candidate in Canada.
Most of us just don’t vote at all, so candidates often win with ~35% of the vote. That doesn’t mean there’s any sort of significant mass disapproval of any particular candidate, it just means that voters recognize that FPTP systems result in specific outcomes that disincentivize voting (because a significant number of votes don’t elect anybody).
If your apathetic about Trump you’ve got your head buried someplace pretty deep.
Tell that to the majority of Americans who didn’t vote. Nothing to do with me. I’m in favour of electoral reform so we can stop this shit.
I do any opportunity I get.
I agree there is a lot of voter apathy. But I can appreciate the perspective, a two party system becomes about choosing the least shit candidate. The US has one more political party than North Korea, it’s the illusion of choice when the vast majority of eligible voters have no say in who those two candidates are. The system is flawed and the only people that can change the system benefit from the status quo. So while I don’t agree with it, I can appreciate people wanting to disengage from politics in the US.
Trump was in the usual kind of range for winning presidential candidates’ percentage of the popular vote across the USA. By that measure he’s just as popular as many other presidents. I don’t know how he compares state by state to previous presidents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin
You might want to check retirement communities in Florida and how they voted.
I assume the majority of folks in Florida retirement communities voted for Trump but Dale’s property was in Arizona and I doubt it was in a retirement community.
Spoiler Alert: Arizona is as full of fascists as Florida is. They voted against MLK day as well as other regressive measures and candidates.