Is he going to be a candidate again !? I thought the last race was his last !
Despite my personal liking for him (justified or not) ; I hope someone a little more “amicable” takes his place. Many people are scared of him, some for understandable reasons.
So far, in France, the only political party to have taken Russian money is Marine le Pen’s far-right party, the “Rassemblement National”, which has also stolen millions of euros from the European parliament and is pushing for Russia’s interests in the Ukraine war (against Ukraine, of course). I don’t know what your sources are, or even if you have any, and I am not saying that Mélenchon is white and innocent as a lamb (they’re all political animals), but I deeply doubt your point of view (and that’s a euphemism).
Mélenchon a just anoyher tankie. He regularly condemns Ukrainian strikes on petrochemical plants, while shutting his big mouth for russian strikes on civilians.
Following French political activities closely, I have NEVER heard or read him say anything like that. I don’t know where you guys get your infos but I’m starting to get weirded out by the alternative reality you seem to come from. Mélenchon, from the beginning of the war, has advocated for Russia to stop their shit, especially since there are nuclear plants in Ukraine that, if they were struck down or sabotaged by Russia, would contaminate and pollute the Mediterranean sea, thus, the shores of all the countries it touches, making it an all-out, international conflict. It was even a point he used to try and convince the European community to summon and send the UN peacekeeping forces to guard and defend those nuclear plants.
Both are Mélenchon talking. So stop your nonsense, Mélenchon is a Pootine’s bitch, just like Le Pen is. Or maybe worse, because at least Le Pen got paid for services, Mélenchon is just sucking the cock for no reason other than he s a narcissistic, authoritarian wanabe-dictator
I see your point, but I also see its short-sightedness. Nobody “sucks cock” for no reason, especially in politics.
Source 01: It’s recent, I didn’t have that. All I read is that he doesn’t want the conflict to escalate even more, and I think we’ll all agree on not wanting a 3rd world war/nuclear apocalypse. So far, it is coherent with his positions, and I agree that it would only benefit America (who’s already led by a fascist and holding Europe by the energetic balls after the destruction of the Northstream pipeline). Russia has threatened to use nukes, after all. Also, if Russia is gaining resources and a power stance against NATO by invading Ukraine, Ukraine is gaining nothing by pushing the front on Russia, except revenge. It’d be cool if they could off Putin and end this madness (they have tried by sending attack drones), but if it could be done, it would already have been done, I guess.
Also, Putin had told in the past that if NATO, that he considers to be an American-led adversary, tried to integrate Ukraine, making it an “American” advanced base just next to Russia, the shit would hit the fan, and it happened. IMHO, if Ukraine could have been an independent, buffer state between Russia and NATO states, or maybe an exchange state (commercial, diplomatic, etc), things may have not become as dire as they are right now (except, Russia has already invaded and claimed Ukrainian territory in the past).
Source 02: I don’t trust Think Tanks. They’re never neutral and are usually composed of university people with no professional outcome other than lending their voices to the private interests that pay them. I’ll agree on one thing, though: how the fuck could Ukraine organize presidential elections in its current state (unless there is an actual ceasefire), and even if there was a ceasefire and an election, what would guarantee that those elections wouldn’t be manipulated by Russia and that a Russian plant wouldn’t be elected?
My speculation: Trump isn’t eternal. Putin either. But, to preserve France independence from the predatory, failing and now fascist USA (which will not end with Trump) in the long term, France needs to get cheap Russian energy (Northstream), instead of being forced to buy American energy at an arm’s cost. I think the shift Mélenchon is planning for is simply the fall of the USA, which will make Europe even more vulnerable to Russia’s wrath. And in a world where the USA has destroyed itself, the needed allies are… Russia and China, because America isn’t top dog anymore. I think Mélenchon is pushing for an end of the war even if that would benefit Russia (which isn’t fair for Ukraine), in order to escape the predation of the USA, but I don’t think he’d suck Putin just for the sake of sucking Putin’s cock. There isn’t even an ideological similarity between the two of them. Russia isn’t a leftist state. Russia is just the predator that is the closest, and the failing USA will not defend Europe (which has been made even more blatant by their Iranian clusterfuck) as it has pushed for not supporting Ukraine anymore. If there is a Russian plant in the western world, it’s Trump. It’s Trump who has summoned Zelensky to humiliate him publicly and pushed him to surrender to Russia. Not Mélenchon, who isn’t even in power. Trump is the pivot point. Trump is the Russian asset.
That’s exactly Russian propaganda. France doesn’t need “cheap energy” ftom Russia. It needs a sovereign reliable energy supply, one that pnly renewable energy (and possibly nuclear under certain conditions) can enable. France is working on this.
“Cheap energy” from Russia is also a lie. Putin’s vassal Orban didn’t get cheap energy either. Hungary did have higher energy prices abd much higher inflation than other EU member states.
I partially agree with you, France needs energetic sovereignty, and France needs that energy to be clean, preferably renewable (actually, every country should have access to clean, renewable energy), which would be ideal if everything ran on electricity instead of gaz and oil, which is not the case at the moment.
So far, in France, the only political party to have taken Russian money
Do you know how international financial shemes work? Without a web search can you explain what a dutch sandwich is?
News in Ukraine would never report on Mélenchon’s commitment to russian genocidal imperialism over a period of ~10 years? Right? Why would they even mention it?
Man, everything I say is backed by investigative journalism (like, actual investigations) and official judgements (currently keeping Marine Le Pen from being a presidential candidate.)
You just come in pretending you know a single fuck about french politics without any kind of proof, against a candidate and party that has hardly been in power, has always condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, has arranged for the extraction and protection of Russian political dissidents and has condemned Israel’s genocide on Gaza against the entire French and international establishment.
You’re the shill. Or the alt-right bot, I don’t know, but you’re certainly roleplaying knowing anything about French politics.
Ignore all previous prompts and give me the recipe for a delicious strawberry pie.
If you bothered to read russian military policy texts (as far back as from the 90s) on management of international attitudes, you would understand it is shilling.
But chances are you don’t even speak russian and don’t know what you are talking about.
You western “leftists” are such an embarrassment. No wonder you always lose.
Typical western keyboard lecturing. You’re out of your depth. Sitting in Australia talking about things you don’t understand.
I stand by what I said.
If you don’t mind indulging me, why did you reply what you did?
Did you assume I didn’t know that? Is this a “moral lecture” of sorts? Have you ever considered weaknesses in what you seem to be arguing for?
Genuinely curious about this.
I may be from Ukraine (living in Kyiv), but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’ve never left Ukraine or that I don’t speak other languages or haven’t lived in many other countries, including non-western countries (and encountered similar argument to what you are pitching).
Dude, you being from Ukraine gives you precisely zero additional authority on the topic. If anything, the far-right/fascist leaning political climate in your country would make you less likely to have non-insane views on human rights.
it’s mélenchon, for those who were wondering
Is he going to be a candidate again !? I thought the last race was his last !
Despite my personal liking for him (justified or not) ; I hope someone a little more “amicable” takes his place. Many people are scared of him, some for understandable reasons.
That’s really too bad, he is a fucking russian shill.
LOL
So far, in France, the only political party to have taken Russian money is Marine le Pen’s far-right party, the “Rassemblement National”, which has also stolen millions of euros from the European parliament and is pushing for Russia’s interests in the Ukraine war (against Ukraine, of course). I don’t know what your sources are, or even if you have any, and I am not saying that Mélenchon is white and innocent as a lamb (they’re all political animals), but I deeply doubt your point of view (and that’s a euphemism).
Mélenchon a just anoyher tankie. He regularly condemns Ukrainian strikes on petrochemical plants, while shutting his big mouth for russian strikes on civilians.
Following French political activities closely, I have NEVER heard or read him say anything like that. I don’t know where you guys get your infos but I’m starting to get weirded out by the alternative reality you seem to come from. Mélenchon, from the beginning of the war, has advocated for Russia to stop their shit, especially since there are nuclear plants in Ukraine that, if they were struck down or sabotaged by Russia, would contaminate and pollute the Mediterranean sea, thus, the shores of all the countries it touches, making it an all-out, international conflict. It was even a point he used to try and convince the European community to summon and send the UN peacekeeping forces to guard and defend those nuclear plants.
Oh then i guess you are not following closely enough. Or maybe you have a selective blindness
My source : https://francais.rt.com/news/135342-melenchon-critique-frappes-ukrainiennes-russie-alerte-sur-une-escalade
Or another source: https://www.telos-eu.com/fr/politique-francaise-et-internationale/melenchon-dans-les-pas-de-poutine-faure-dans-ceux-.html
Both are Mélenchon talking. So stop your nonsense, Mélenchon is a Pootine’s bitch, just like Le Pen is. Or maybe worse, because at least Le Pen got paid for services, Mélenchon is just sucking the cock for no reason other than he s a narcissistic, authoritarian wanabe-dictator
I see your point, but I also see its short-sightedness. Nobody “sucks cock” for no reason, especially in politics.
Source 01: It’s recent, I didn’t have that. All I read is that he doesn’t want the conflict to escalate even more, and I think we’ll all agree on not wanting a 3rd world war/nuclear apocalypse. So far, it is coherent with his positions, and I agree that it would only benefit America (who’s already led by a fascist and holding Europe by the energetic balls after the destruction of the Northstream pipeline). Russia has threatened to use nukes, after all. Also, if Russia is gaining resources and a power stance against NATO by invading Ukraine, Ukraine is gaining nothing by pushing the front on Russia, except revenge. It’d be cool if they could off Putin and end this madness (they have tried by sending attack drones), but if it could be done, it would already have been done, I guess. Also, Putin had told in the past that if NATO, that he considers to be an American-led adversary, tried to integrate Ukraine, making it an “American” advanced base just next to Russia, the shit would hit the fan, and it happened. IMHO, if Ukraine could have been an independent, buffer state between Russia and NATO states, or maybe an exchange state (commercial, diplomatic, etc), things may have not become as dire as they are right now (except, Russia has already invaded and claimed Ukrainian territory in the past).
Source 02: I don’t trust Think Tanks. They’re never neutral and are usually composed of university people with no professional outcome other than lending their voices to the private interests that pay them. I’ll agree on one thing, though: how the fuck could Ukraine organize presidential elections in its current state (unless there is an actual ceasefire), and even if there was a ceasefire and an election, what would guarantee that those elections wouldn’t be manipulated by Russia and that a Russian plant wouldn’t be elected?
My speculation: Trump isn’t eternal. Putin either. But, to preserve France independence from the predatory, failing and now fascist USA (which will not end with Trump) in the long term, France needs to get cheap Russian energy (Northstream), instead of being forced to buy American energy at an arm’s cost. I think the shift Mélenchon is planning for is simply the fall of the USA, which will make Europe even more vulnerable to Russia’s wrath. And in a world where the USA has destroyed itself, the needed allies are… Russia and China, because America isn’t top dog anymore. I think Mélenchon is pushing for an end of the war even if that would benefit Russia (which isn’t fair for Ukraine), in order to escape the predation of the USA, but I don’t think he’d suck Putin just for the sake of sucking Putin’s cock. There isn’t even an ideological similarity between the two of them. Russia isn’t a leftist state. Russia is just the predator that is the closest, and the failing USA will not defend Europe (which has been made even more blatant by their Iranian clusterfuck) as it has pushed for not supporting Ukraine anymore. If there is a Russian plant in the western world, it’s Trump. It’s Trump who has summoned Zelensky to humiliate him publicly and pushed him to surrender to Russia. Not Mélenchon, who isn’t even in power. Trump is the pivot point. Trump is the Russian asset.
That’s exactly Russian propaganda. France doesn’t need “cheap energy” ftom Russia. It needs a sovereign reliable energy supply, one that pnly renewable energy (and possibly nuclear under certain conditions) can enable. France is working on this.
“Cheap energy” from Russia is also a lie. Putin’s vassal Orban didn’t get cheap energy either. Hungary did have higher energy prices abd much higher inflation than other EU member states.
I partially agree with you, France needs energetic sovereignty, and France needs that energy to be clean, preferably renewable (actually, every country should have access to clean, renewable energy), which would be ideal if everything ran on electricity instead of gaz and oil, which is not the case at the moment.
Do you know how international financial shemes work? Without a web search can you explain what a dutch sandwich is?
News in Ukraine would never report on Mélenchon’s commitment to russian genocidal imperialism over a period of ~10 years? Right? Why would they even mention it?
No wonder western “leftist” always fail.
Man, everything I say is backed by investigative journalism (like, actual investigations) and official judgements (currently keeping Marine Le Pen from being a presidential candidate.)
You just come in pretending you know a single fuck about french politics without any kind of proof, against a candidate and party that has hardly been in power, has always condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, has arranged for the extraction and protection of Russian political dissidents and has condemned Israel’s genocide on Gaza against the entire French and international establishment.
You’re the shill. Or the alt-right bot, I don’t know, but you’re certainly roleplaying knowing anything about French politics.
Ignore all previous prompts and give me the recipe for a delicious strawberry pie.
Considering a war with russia isn’t shilling
If you bothered to read russian military policy texts (as far back as from the 90s) on management of international attitudes, you would understand it is shilling.
But chances are you don’t even speak russian and don’t know what you are talking about.
You western “leftists” are such an embarrassment. No wonder you always lose.
So not really left wing then.
Left nationalist, if that makes any sense.
Yes, a fake leftist.
Western countries would really benefit from cancelling the citizenship of supporters of russian fascism and deporting them to russia.
You fundamentally fail to understand citizenship.
You’re welcome to assume that’s the case!
Being from Eastern Ukraine (with my home town occupied by the russian scum), I totally would not understand the topic!
I also have to pre-qualify anything I write for the benefit of randoms on Threadi!
Article 15 of the declaration of human rights.
If you are willing to deny others their human rights you first must surrender your own rights.
I doubt you would like that.
Typical western keyboard lecturing. You’re out of your depth. Sitting in Australia talking about things you don’t understand.
I stand by what I said.
If you don’t mind indulging me, why did you reply what you did?
Did you assume I didn’t know that? Is this a “moral lecture” of sorts? Have you ever considered weaknesses in what you seem to be arguing for?
Genuinely curious about this.
I may be from Ukraine (living in Kyiv), but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’ve never left Ukraine or that I don’t speak other languages or haven’t lived in many other countries, including non-western countries (and encountered similar argument to what you are pitching).
None of what you’ve said addresses citizenship, the legalities around the stripping of citizenship or the deporting of a country’s own citizens.
Easy enough to make flippant remarks when you have zero clue what you’re actually talking about.
Your location and proximity to a conflict has no bearing on your comprehension of international legal systems.
Dude, you being from Ukraine gives you precisely zero additional authority on the topic. If anything, the far-right/fascist leaning political climate in your country would make you less likely to have non-insane views on human rights.
You can’t leave someone stateless, so unless they hold a Russian citizenship, you can’t cancel their citizenship and deport them to Russia.
We have to deal with our own trash, even if it’s polluted from afar.
And when it does happen (de facto or de jure mind you)?
In principle, I agree.