Torontonians are excited by the possibility of moving to the EU, even if it is unlikely anytime soon.
And also some europeans dream of living in a canada that has more european values HINT HINT. I already live in scandinavia but the far north of america is just so unique. If i could move and get a job there like in any other eu country itd be soooo cool
I for one would welcome some more European influence in regards to infrastructure and city planning. A good chunk of Canadian infrastructure could use more beauty in how it’s designed and maintained. Don’t get me wrong we have a few nice streets here or there, but even the nice streets could use some more love as well.
Some few examples which look even better in person.
While this is what I see 90% of Canada as.
More bike pedestrian and transit friendly cities, that actually look cool
We would need more dense cities. Which is fine but I don’t see it happening.
I support you living in Canada!
I think Carney is working overtime to disengage from an unreliable partner. He’s working hard for Canada. I’m thrilled with the prospect of becoming an Associate UN Member.
There’s nothing quite as elbows up in defending Canada as getting excited about the possibility of leaving. Have seen plenty of such cognitive dissonance among vocal nationalists now excited at the potential of living in Europe. Not a comment on the potential policy itself, but it makes me laugh a bit every time I see someone who has been vigorously flag waving suddenly excited about moving to Europe.
I mean this goes both ways though too, there will be an influx of EU residents moving to Canada. Flow of peoples and ideas is a good thing.
You’re responding to something quite different from what I wrote, which was a comment on people being flag-waving nationalists while also being excited to leave. But, on the points you raise, while I agree that flow of peoples and ideas is a good thing, I’ll also just point out that we had a lot of flow of peoples and ideas in already existing immigration policies until very recently. Is it just great that we’re cutting back on the flow of peoples and ideas from places like Asia while opening the flow to more people and ideas from Europe? Seems awfully reminiscent of the demands made by the US for a pivot back to embracing Western Civilization and keeping out those other people and their ideas.
I’m not going to disagree with you on this. I think there has been a problem with fast food establishments (especially) only hiring immigrants. I’m not going to get into that now. I will say this, though. I was a bookkeeper for several years at a large farm in the Fraser Valley, B.C. The work in the fields was hard. I will tell you that we constantly advertised for workers, and never got a response. The farm applied for temporary Mexican workers. We did have workers come from Mexico for a few months every year. They had amazing lodging on the farm, and were treated really well, and were paid fair wages. They were all Catholic, so one of the sons would drive them to church every Sunday, and the son would drive them wherever they wan’t to go for specific foods, etc. The same men came back every year. There’s always two sides to the story.
The issue is that you’re conflating patriotism with nationalism. Patriotism is loving your country while nationalism is thinking your country is superior to other countries. You can live and work in another country while still loving the country you came from. But if you believe your country is superior to other countries it would be hypocritical to want to go to another country.
So you are correct to think that wanting to go to the EU doesn’t align with nationalism. What you’re missing is that Canadians aren’t being nationalistic, we’re being patriotic. We’re against the US because the US is trying to assert dominance over our country, and that’s an existential threat to something we love. Elbows up is a reaction to that threat.
The EU on the other hand is not an existential threat to Canada. In fact a partnership with the EU will make both Canada and the EU more resilient against external threats to both. The EU doesn’t want us to stop being Canadian, and the very nature of the EU is multicultural and multilingual, so a Canadian could live and work there while being respected as a Canadian. This may not be the case in other parts of the world.
You’re also thinking the immigration policy is about some nationalistic cultural thing. It’s more of an economic consideration. Right now there’s a housing crisis in Canada and we’re in an economic crisis (because of you know who). It’s not economically feasible to have significantly more inflow of people than outflow right now. An open immigration policy with the EU isn’t going to happen tomorrow, and the housing situation and the relative inflow and outflow would be considered before adopting that kind of policy.
I agree! Although, I would love to see more health care workers from any country. Doctors and Nurses, please.
Yeah bit of a hangover from the covid crisis… a lot of doctors and nurses got burned out. The problem there is the various associations don’t want to recognize credentials from other countries to keep the demand for people with Canadian credentials high.
Nope. That was a whole lot of replying to not what I said. I have been repeatedly clear that I’m referring to nationalists. Those exist. They’re what I’m referring to.
AGM Ok, I read your comment again. I hear what you’re saying. You will see one of my previous posts that I would love and welcome doctors and nurses from any country/culture. I think you might be mistaken about who is able to get into Canada. Yes, we have had to back off on our immigration rules. Honestly, you must realize that. Grandmothers, Grandfathers, Nieces, Nephews, Aunts, Uncles. It really got to the point where anyone who was related to a naturalized Canadian could do the same. However, should our EU Associate go through, I don’t believe it’ll be any easier for them. I can give you all kinds of stories about Americans that applied to Canada, and were denied. Canada is tightening the rules, as they should. It’s not a free-for-all for Europeans. It’s trade relations. Get a grip…
If anything even comes of this. I do not think freedom of movement well be included as I don’t think the EU countries would agree to that, but we well see.
I personally have never experienced Elbows Up as nationalism, but as a response to nationalism.
I still buy Mexican produce, sometimes I buy French jam. I’m more likely to buy a German product that’s more expensive if the only other option is American. I’m buying more from a diversity of places than I was 5 years ago. I don’t want to be isolationist, I just don’t want one nation in particular to be a dick to us.
So from my perspective it’s never been nationalism. I’d also be interested in doing Europe stuff, since I’m not traveling to the States anymore, no dissonance required.
That’s fair. I see a lot of what I would consider nationalism, which I also think is natural in a case where people feel threatened by a force from outside, but it’s not everyone.
I gave up on this when Trudeau couldn’t do it. It’s nice but I don’t see it happening.
Right now joining their post-secondary accreditation would be nice.
Dear, Trudeau is no longer part of the conversation. Move on…
No, actually we’re excited about moving away from a country that supports a paedophile, narcissist that fucked up an existing agreement. That called us the 51st state. That called our Prime Minister “Governor”. Don’t FUCK with Canadians!!
Well the pedophile, conman was at least partly right, Carney was the Governor of the Bank of Canada. It’s an old title but apparently dementia can lead to confusion between the past and the present.
If an ex breaks up with you, and you later start dating a new person, you should be excited about and looking forward to the new relationship instead of fixating on the bad one that’s ended.
Well, maybe your ex is also your neighbour (literally happened to me). It’s not practical to not think of your ex at all anymore, because they still have a presence and effect on your life. So you still have to manage that and be civilly neighbourly, but they should not have any bearing or space in your new relationship.
Agreed. Case in point: BBC: There are no Canadian teams in the NFL - but there are millions of fans. At the Buffalo Bills game in New York on Thursday night, plenty of Canadians wore the team’s trademark red, white and blue while drinking beside their pick-up trucks, which were parked to tailgate - a very American pre-game tradition. The Bills’ stadium is only 112 miles (180 km) from Toronto - about a two and a half hour drive for fans - and right across Lake Ontario, which President Donald Trump has sought to rename Lake America. So it was no surprise that many Canadians arrived long before kick-off to soak up the atmosphere and enjoy the sights of the new Highmark Stadium for their team 's home opener against the Detroit Lions. What was unusual was that their national anthem rang out through the stadium. The field was decked out with both the stars and stripes of the US flag and the maple leaf of the Canadian one, and the 1990s Canadian band The Barenaked Ladies belted out Oh Canada! in front of a massive crowd. Thank you, New York ❤️
International relations are hardly comparable to exclusive romantic entanglements. Having relations with multiple nations isn’t cheating, for instance, but rather the norm.
If we do want to make the connection, that Ex is your only close neighbour and also a huge cunt you can’t ignore, which does influence the way you deal with other nations in hopes of getting a support network.
Right, and analogies and metaphors should never be used because no analogy or metaphor will ever be normal. Would you be more satisfied if it were simply changed to “best friend”?
It’s not so much about normal as about the point of the metaphor. I don’t think they generally shouldn’t be used; I think this one doesn’t really work in this context because international relations aren’t nearly as “exclusive” as relationships, not can they ever be completely separated.
If we want to make an analogy about social relationships applied to international relationships, you’re still moving in the same social circles where a friendship or enmity with someone ripples out into the dynamics of your relationship to everyone else. They might approve of your choice of friends or look critically at your closeness to someone they can’t stand, feel like they have to choose a side or appease both of you, defend or condemn either party’s actions…
It’s not like you’d form new relationships upon one breaking down if you already know everyone else and everyone also knows both you and your ex.
It’s like having an ex that’s your neighbour and your ex is constantly threatening to take your house from you.
Also your ex has a bunch of nuclear weapons and powerful military.
Hmmm… maybe it’s not at all like the dating scene?
But, your neighbour is a lunatic. And all the neighbours in the neighbourhood are distancing themselves from their house. And everyone is gathering at BBQs wondering why the lunatic’s family isn’t doing SOMETHING about him! I mean, he’s really fucking up the whole neighbourhood! He’s actually started this HUGE dispute with another house on the other block. It’s not actually going anywhere, but it affecting our neighbourhood too! It’s actually affecting neighbourhoods all over the city! I think the whole fucking city is getting really tired of that lunatic’s behaviour…
