So, my strata complex banned smoking earlier this year. It was a bylaw adjustment that had been proposed pretty much every year for the decade+ I’ve been in the building. It was voted down, year after year, until this year. This year, the group that wanted to ban it, just happened to get the right mix of people in the AGM to pass the amendment by 1 vote. A bunch of the pro-smoking sorts (pot heads generally) had grown tired of constantly voting it down, had assumed this years vote would go the same, and didn’t show up.
Attempting to rescind the change is nearly impossible, especially as the ‘indifferent’ people in the building generally just prefer to vote for the status quo, whatever that happens to be at the time – and as the younger generation that increasingly moves in, has been taught smoking is unequivocally bad and anyone that does it is bad.
The point is, that whether its right wing or left wing, a progressive or conservative movement, persistence can yield results, even if you don’t change your approach / message at all – you just need to wear down the undecideds, and wait for just the right mix of voters, to completely break existing norms to a point that they can’t be rebuilt.
Hell, just look at the USA as a case in point. Extremist elements did their thing. The separatists are now moving to likely take over the whole conservative party in Alberta, by controlling a majority of the ‘base’ supporters. So, no, the separatist “madness” won’t go away.
Especially because, at its core, there are justifiable reasons for western provinces to feel alienated/like an afterthought for the rest of the country. Even BC’s conservative party is moving towards separatist motifs. BC has 43 seats in parliament – with about 13-14% of the Canadian population. The Maritime provinces, all combined, have about 5% of the country’s population, and like 32-33 seats. A riding in BC’s lower mainland tends to have 120k people in it – ridings in PEI have less than 50k people. A BC voter is far less represented in the house than voters in the maritimes. The Maritimes are ok with this, because they like having outsized power for their actual size/contribution to the country – few people would willingly give up power, and they’re no exception. The Liberals are ok with this, because the maritimes are one of their core electoral power houses. The people in power, who often moan about equity and inclusion, would rather leave the imbalance in place and make out like western alienation is a fiction – which just feeds into the cycle of alienating the west.
Yeah, well here, we don’t have landladies. I’m not sure what other point you’d been trying to make, because I couldn’t bother reading/retaining it. But yeah. Your point is invalid because no landlady.
The point was, the law - at least in this region - says one may not smoke at all within range (I think it’s 9 meters) of a door to where someone works.
If you’re in a multi-unit building, and one of your neighbours works from home, as a homemaker or a parent or remotely, the question moves from a preference question to a criminal question.
I’ll try to keep my reply under 5,000 words so it’s not too daunting to read.
… ah, I see, nuance and the finer art of subtle jabs are lost on you. You completely missed the point, twice. I shouldn’t be surprised, I guess, since you admitted you don’t retain things you read, and/or you don’t bother to read posts before replying.
If you think BC having 13-14% of the population, with 43 seats – vs the Maritimes having 5% of the population, and 32 seats, is not an east/west problem, idk what you’d consider an east/west problem. If you’re referring to me comparing a vancouver riding to “any riding in PEI”? Silly criticism in my view. The point remains that they have far greater representation per voter at a provincial level. That is, quite explicitly and historically, an east/west problem, one cited by separatists.
The structural issues to do with representation for the West have been issues for decades. The Reform party in BC, circa 1980s-1990s, was largely based on systemic/structural issues that western provinces have with how things are divided up – with a focus on things like seat counts in parl, in senate, and equalization payments. Issues that have persisted since the 1980s, should likely help most people understand why separatists exist out west. Issues get raised, but until separatists step in, the Central/Eastern part of the country doesn’t give a fuck, especially since the status quo benefits them.
If a group of people have had issues with the government’s structure for like 50+ years now, and the governments done basically nothing to address it, it really shouldn’t surprise anyone that people started talking separation. Nor should it surprise anyone that, when the government goes back to doing nothing about the core issues, those separatists re-emerge.
So PEIs 4 ridings are an affront to BC and completely unfair?
The raw voters per riding metric has never, and will never be the sole determination in riding size and location. All that would do is completely eliminate what little influence that the more rural parts of the country have. Even in riding rich Ontario, ask the Northern ridings how influential they feel.
Yes, there’s a sentiment that a province like PEI having a relative shitload of seats, and a shit load of representation in the house, and getting a bunch of money from the Central government sorts because they prop up the central government against western province interests… while having far fewer people, far lower contributions to the country… is an affront to western provinces and is unfair within the context of equal representation that’s meant to permeate democratic institutions. You’re still harping on riding size and location, as though its rural vs urban – but I already stated, that is tertiary to the point that was raised previously.
And dude, you literally just saw a vote/national issue spurred on by alienation / discontent over this sorta shit. You really gotta still ask these sorts of questions? Yes, a large group of people in western provinces view it as unfair that the maritimes, and eastern provinces in general, get what appears to be preferential treatment / more representation in federal politics. That’s why they have separatist movements out west. The lack of seats, is tied directly to things like them saying Ottawa and eastern provinces are dictating things like climate policies without proper representation from western provinces at the table – and the impact of those policies are often more ‘negative’ / damaging to western provinces. The basic principle is “If the West had proper representation in federal politics, reflecting the population size and GDP/Economic contributions, they’d be able to challenge / get better legislation for western province interests at a federal level”. Even last night, the CBC commenters after the voting was done, were saying things like “Just watch, now that it’s over, the Feds will likely disappear again and go back to punishing us with terrible anti-west legislation in the near future”. That’s the sentiment – the west isn’t represented, and by extension their interests aren’t properly addressed.
And yes, the ‘extension’ of that is the obvious note that “Other areas of the country are over-represented compared to the West”. One person gets given a fork and a plate with crumbs, the other gets a big ol slice of cake, and you’re asking “Is that distribution unfair?? Why would the guy with the empty plate be annoyed at the guy with the cake??” Yes. Yes it is unfair. Even if it’s the fault of the person serving the cake for the imbalance, the person getting fucked over will be pissed off, and will highlight the gaps in portions to stress how they’re getting fucked over. The person getting that giant slice “SHOULD” be trying to make things fair, to get their fellow diner a proper serving – instead they just eat their slice and tell the west to eat a dick, because any changes to how the person serving food divides things, needs to get approved by the people getting big slices of cake. And they don’t want to give up their big slice of cake, even if they see other people leaving the restaurant, after waiting 50 years for a slice. The separatist argument is, in some ways, simply saying “Why should we keep waiting for these cake fuckers to treat us fairly? Let’s just go somewhere else”.
As an aside, I personally see no issue with saying something like “The maritimes should be amalgamated into a single province, and given the same general representation as other provinces of similar geographic size/economic clout/population - so basically, closer to 14 seats, like manitoba/sask”.
I started reading this but gave up because at the end of the day let’s call it as it is. Some people are frankly butthurt because they don’t have more power when the feel they should even though all the existing laws and structure tell them “well actually no you don’t”
And instead of working within the system to change it they would rather whinge and be butthurt.
It’s nothing against you personally I’m just done listening to whining overall. You don’t like something work within the system to fix it. Be the change you want to see in the world. Beyond that, get bent.
So, my strata complex banned smoking earlier this year. It was a bylaw adjustment that had been proposed pretty much every year for the decade+ I’ve been in the building. It was voted down, year after year, until this year. This year, the group that wanted to ban it, just happened to get the right mix of people in the AGM to pass the amendment by 1 vote. A bunch of the pro-smoking sorts (pot heads generally) had grown tired of constantly voting it down, had assumed this years vote would go the same, and didn’t show up.
Attempting to rescind the change is nearly impossible, especially as the ‘indifferent’ people in the building generally just prefer to vote for the status quo, whatever that happens to be at the time – and as the younger generation that increasingly moves in, has been taught smoking is unequivocally bad and anyone that does it is bad.
The point is, that whether its right wing or left wing, a progressive or conservative movement, persistence can yield results, even if you don’t change your approach / message at all – you just need to wear down the undecideds, and wait for just the right mix of voters, to completely break existing norms to a point that they can’t be rebuilt.
Hell, just look at the USA as a case in point. Extremist elements did their thing. The separatists are now moving to likely take over the whole conservative party in Alberta, by controlling a majority of the ‘base’ supporters. So, no, the separatist “madness” won’t go away.
Especially because, at its core, there are justifiable reasons for western provinces to feel alienated/like an afterthought for the rest of the country. Even BC’s conservative party is moving towards separatist motifs. BC has 43 seats in parliament – with about 13-14% of the Canadian population. The Maritime provinces, all combined, have about 5% of the country’s population, and like 32-33 seats. A riding in BC’s lower mainland tends to have 120k people in it – ridings in PEI have less than 50k people. A BC voter is far less represented in the house than voters in the maritimes. The Maritimes are ok with this, because they like having outsized power for their actual size/contribution to the country – few people would willingly give up power, and they’re no exception. The Liberals are ok with this, because the maritimes are one of their core electoral power houses. The people in power, who often moan about equity and inclusion, would rather leave the imbalance in place and make out like western alienation is a fiction – which just feeds into the cycle of alienating the west.
My entire building is smoke-free, because the landlady works here and it’s a law. 27 residential storeys.
I admit a lot of what you wrote I didn’t retain very long, but that particular issue is moot.
Yeah, well here, we don’t have landladies. I’m not sure what other point you’d been trying to make, because I couldn’t bother reading/retaining it. But yeah. Your point is invalid because no landlady.
The point was, the law - at least in this region - says one may not smoke at all within range (I think it’s 9 meters) of a door to where someone works.
If you’re in a multi-unit building, and one of your neighbours works from home, as a homemaker or a parent or remotely, the question moves from a preference question to a criminal question.
I’ll try to keep my reply under 5,000 words so it’s not too daunting to read.
… ah, I see, nuance and the finer art of subtle jabs are lost on you. You completely missed the point, twice. I shouldn’t be surprised, I guess, since you admitted you don’t retain things you read, and/or you don’t bother to read posts before replying.
So you want to solve east - west alienation, by amplifying urban - rural, while not actually addressing any of the east-west “issues”?
If you think BC having 13-14% of the population, with 43 seats – vs the Maritimes having 5% of the population, and 32 seats, is not an east/west problem, idk what you’d consider an east/west problem. If you’re referring to me comparing a vancouver riding to “any riding in PEI”? Silly criticism in my view. The point remains that they have far greater representation per voter at a provincial level. That is, quite explicitly and historically, an east/west problem, one cited by separatists.
The structural issues to do with representation for the West have been issues for decades. The Reform party in BC, circa 1980s-1990s, was largely based on systemic/structural issues that western provinces have with how things are divided up – with a focus on things like seat counts in parl, in senate, and equalization payments. Issues that have persisted since the 1980s, should likely help most people understand why separatists exist out west. Issues get raised, but until separatists step in, the Central/Eastern part of the country doesn’t give a fuck, especially since the status quo benefits them.
If a group of people have had issues with the government’s structure for like 50+ years now, and the governments done basically nothing to address it, it really shouldn’t surprise anyone that people started talking separation. Nor should it surprise anyone that, when the government goes back to doing nothing about the core issues, those separatists re-emerge.
So PEIs 4 ridings are an affront to BC and completely unfair?
The raw voters per riding metric has never, and will never be the sole determination in riding size and location. All that would do is completely eliminate what little influence that the more rural parts of the country have. Even in riding rich Ontario, ask the Northern ridings how influential they feel.
Yes, there’s a sentiment that a province like PEI having a relative shitload of seats, and a shit load of representation in the house, and getting a bunch of money from the Central government sorts because they prop up the central government against western province interests… while having far fewer people, far lower contributions to the country… is an affront to western provinces and is unfair within the context of equal representation that’s meant to permeate democratic institutions. You’re still harping on riding size and location, as though its rural vs urban – but I already stated, that is tertiary to the point that was raised previously.
And dude, you literally just saw a vote/national issue spurred on by alienation / discontent over this sorta shit. You really gotta still ask these sorts of questions? Yes, a large group of people in western provinces view it as unfair that the maritimes, and eastern provinces in general, get what appears to be preferential treatment / more representation in federal politics. That’s why they have separatist movements out west. The lack of seats, is tied directly to things like them saying Ottawa and eastern provinces are dictating things like climate policies without proper representation from western provinces at the table – and the impact of those policies are often more ‘negative’ / damaging to western provinces. The basic principle is “If the West had proper representation in federal politics, reflecting the population size and GDP/Economic contributions, they’d be able to challenge / get better legislation for western province interests at a federal level”. Even last night, the CBC commenters after the voting was done, were saying things like “Just watch, now that it’s over, the Feds will likely disappear again and go back to punishing us with terrible anti-west legislation in the near future”. That’s the sentiment – the west isn’t represented, and by extension their interests aren’t properly addressed.
And yes, the ‘extension’ of that is the obvious note that “Other areas of the country are over-represented compared to the West”. One person gets given a fork and a plate with crumbs, the other gets a big ol slice of cake, and you’re asking “Is that distribution unfair?? Why would the guy with the empty plate be annoyed at the guy with the cake??” Yes. Yes it is unfair. Even if it’s the fault of the person serving the cake for the imbalance, the person getting fucked over will be pissed off, and will highlight the gaps in portions to stress how they’re getting fucked over. The person getting that giant slice “SHOULD” be trying to make things fair, to get their fellow diner a proper serving – instead they just eat their slice and tell the west to eat a dick, because any changes to how the person serving food divides things, needs to get approved by the people getting big slices of cake. And they don’t want to give up their big slice of cake, even if they see other people leaving the restaurant, after waiting 50 years for a slice. The separatist argument is, in some ways, simply saying “Why should we keep waiting for these cake fuckers to treat us fairly? Let’s just go somewhere else”.
As an aside, I personally see no issue with saying something like “The maritimes should be amalgamated into a single province, and given the same general representation as other provinces of similar geographic size/economic clout/population - so basically, closer to 14 seats, like manitoba/sask”.
I started reading this but gave up because at the end of the day let’s call it as it is. Some people are frankly butthurt because they don’t have more power when the feel they should even though all the existing laws and structure tell them “well actually no you don’t”
And instead of working within the system to change it they would rather whinge and be butthurt.
Yeah, reading’s hard. I agree. You should prolly try something like X or Bluesky, with short posts and less nuance.
It’s nothing against you personally I’m just done listening to whining overall. You don’t like something work within the system to fix it. Be the change you want to see in the world. Beyond that, get bent.