The world doesn’t need to go to war, it needs to stop being afraid of a major economic downturn.
Stop everything with the US: trade, travel, everything. Deport all Americans back to their native soil. Isolate them, and see how quickly things change.
While we’re at it, do the same with Russia and Israel. And maybe China?
Would it cause a global economic crisis? Probably. But people are already dying—it’s worth it if we can actually end a genocide and a couple wars.
So much this. Just 100% stop all trade with the United States. All of it. And zero travel. Then ban US travel to your country. Give them the isolation they crave.
No, definitely impose sanctions and stop trade, but don’t ban travel. Let the brain drain do its thing.
Some of us do not consent to the actions of this rogue administration, and we don’t crave isolation. Some of us desperately want a way out of this country.
The comment above did not say let’s focus the next 10 years to build a software stack that does not depend on US software. It said let’s immediately stop importing stuff from the US. That is not something you can in a moment substitute without massive disruption.
Computer parts are made in China and Taiwan mostly, sure. But: AMD is American, intel is American, Nvidia is American. Go build a computer without using parts coming from one of these companies.
The comment said nothing about the ban having to be this instant. They said to stop all trade. That could just as well mean, take the necessary steps to stop all trade as feasibly fast as possible. How long do you think it would take for China to be able to export computer hardware directly to the EU if the EU said tomorrow “As soon as you can supply hardware, we will stop all trade with USA”? China is the champion of accelerated manufacturing, they’d be supplying us in a couple of months.
There already is open source software solution for by FAR most software that is used. Most companies don’t actually need proprietary software from USA, they can switch very quickly, especially if they get a deadline in a month to switch everything away from Linux, 'cause then the profits are on the line.
Do you know European funds can not be used to hire Iranians because the US demanded so? I know it because I was hiring an Iranian person until I figured I could not.
Open source software does not cover most needs, and server capacity is mostly in the US.
I doubt you can switch away in one month from us software, do you have open source software for safe information storage and retrieval of patient data in hospitals that complies with the regulations of all 27 states of the EU?
While China can produce things, they do not have strong chip designers. If they were to produce good enough chips I guess they’d keep them for internal use for quite a while.
I haven’t lived there in a decade and only maintain citizenship to have access to my parents in cases of emergency. Why on earth would you send me back to that hell-hole? All that accomplishes is destroying my family, my business, my wife’s ability to live, etc.
I don’t agree with them, but I do see the logic. Send back a bunch Americans who saw good reason to leave and perhaps they’ll be forced to try to make it more like wherever they fled to.
Or it’s just vindictive “Trump deports people so we deport people” idiocy, idk
I don’t. What are they going to do? A lot of people I know who live abroad have done so for decades and have no living family in the US. All it would do is introduce a bunch of homeless people to the US and destroy lives. I voted against the current administration and disagree with everything they do. Guess they should just make my wife homeless, get my house repossessed, destroy my career, and probably just end with me killing myself because of where I was born. Must be big fans of ICEs work, I guess.
In this hypothetical scenario, maybe you could just renounce your citizenship (and stop paying taxes to the US).
In all cases, retaliation against a fascist regime will destroy lives, but it’s generally the better option. I mean people suggest to stop trading with the US or crash their economy, this is not victimless either.
I plan to renounce but I need to be able to help my parents if they need it. Family comes first here. I do not have to pay taxes, just file them; especially with the weak Japanese yen, I don’t make enough to need to pay anything.
Honestly at this point, I rather see Americans suffer. It would humble them. My country was attacked by US & a lot my fellow citizens committed suicide due to the massive blow from tariffs.
Indeed. It’s terrible and it’s also the reason we don’t visit family in the US (my wife is not a US citizen and barely speaks English). I do not support it, I voted against the current administration, and I have removed as many US companies as possible from my life.
Most of the people in charge don’t have their value in USD, they have it in material and speculative value. The crash of the USD will hurt everyone but them.
Crashing the USD would be its demise as the global reserve currency, which would evaporate all that speculative value overnight.
Sure, the oligarchs would still have their mansions, bunkers, and bullet-proof SUVs, but their primary source of leverage and influence would be gone. They would become irrelevant.
Would this finally cause the american population enough distress to heave themselves off their armchairs, put down their hotdogs, turn off the TV, and get out the guillotines?
But when you suggest things they can do (it starts with s and rhymes with trike) all you get are excuses. I’m personally done letting Americans off the hook.
I agree, but the ability to strike in America was purposefully neutered. The only real way to strike effectively would be, at best, extra-legal, if not outright illegal. It’s not like most of the civilized world. The “leader of the free world” has made it very hard for the citizens to freely stand against it.
The only reason anybody ever had the right to legally strike was due to illegally striking. You’re not worse off than early 20th century trade unionists who literally fought private militias and the military. However, this is what ICE is going to be used for at this rate so y’all don’t have much time.
Except that the US government and corporations have spent the years since convincing the people that there’s a right way to protest, and that it’s by holding signs on a street corner - preferably out of view. This is why MLK was seen as a violent thug during the Civil Rights Movement and is seen as a hero today. Their struggle has been whitewashed to remove what actually happened and turned into an example of changing things the “right way” - by gently asking your oppressors to stop oppressing you. The US is one of the most propagandized populations on the planet. Our children pledge their undying loyalty every morning to the flag that hangs in every classroom. The only other countries on Earth to have done that are North Korea and the Hitler’s Youth program in Nazi Germany.
They’ve also gutted any form of support network for the same reason. The US populace is staunchly anti-union because companies have convinced us that worker’s rights are bad. They’ve made everybody dependent on keeping their job to keep food on the table and a roof over their head, of course, but also to see a doctor if you have a fever. And God forbid it’s anything worse than that. It’s bread and circuses with a dash of the Sword of Damocles.
So not only do we have to convince people to risk their lives to fight a fascist regime and their police force that is armed as well as many countries military, we have to convince the pearl clutchers that snarky taglines on signs aren’t going to solve things, and reconstruct support networks that haven’t existed for over half a century, and prevent the 45% of the population who support the fascists from voluntarily drafting themselves to root out any resistance, if not start shooting them in the streets. The FBI spends half their time putting down white supremacist militias. All they’d have to do is stop doing that and let the Trump regime do the rest by tweeting from the toilet at 3am. Those most likely to take up arms against the system are the same people who support the current system.
The average person isn’t brave enough to risk their life. If they were, we’d see Canadians coming down to burn down the White House again. We’d see Mexicans crossing the southern border. We’d see aid networks forming from other countries to provide support for anybody willing to resist. But we don’t and we won’t. And I don’t mean that in a “other countries should solve American problems” way, but that people in other countries are just as likely to say, “Not my fight, not my problem. Somebody else should deal with it” as Americans are. It’s human nature. If it wasn’t, we’d see more people taking out healthcare CEOs. More people would’ve supported the IRA. We’d have far more examples instead of Blair Mountain and the Haymarket Affair.
It’s easy for the armchair generals of the world to say that Americans should just arm themselves and go to war against the largest military on the planet when it isn’t their necks on the line.
Thank you. Really tired of the whole ‘do something’ when the very system, propaganda machine, and half the population is conditioned to fight their neighbors because of lies about who those neighbors are or what those neighbors believe. We have a population that will attempt a coup over a lie no one can prove with evidence, but support the side lying to them about it all when they’re told to look the other way about this regimes many crimes.
The armchair warriors around the world are tired of the inaction from Americans? Try living here and needing to fight against the fascism while half the country tries to stop you to own the libs. It’s fucking exhausting. I’ve lost friends and family to their bullshit excuses of essentially if they’re not doing anything wrong, then they have nothing to worry about. We’re fucking pissed, too, but short of calling, writing, voting, protesting, and trying to engage and help our communities, what should we do?
It needs to happen regardless, but no, we are worse off than they were. There are a lot more ways to track people, which is one major negative. Back then there weren’t a system designed to prevent and punish striking. Now there is. If it ends up happening at the scale that’s needed to make a difference then there will be fights against private militias and the government again.
Back then there weren’t a system designed to prevent and punish striking.
There was, we call it Pinkerton, among others. At least now you can organize out in the open.
then there will be fights against private militias and the government again.
There’s no nonviolent class conflict (which is what this needs to be), but the magnitude of the violence will increase exponentially with time as the fascists consolidate power.
There was, we call it Pinkerton, among others. At least now you can organize out in the open.
No, you can’t. The US is so anti-union that there is a real risk of you getting reported to your boss for mentioning unionizing to your coworkers. They can’t openly fire you for trying to unionize, but most of the US is “at will employment,” which means that they can fire you at any time and don’t need to say why.
How do you strike if you’re already unemployed? So many people are already losing their jobs to automation and AI.
Also, one of the most insidious aspects of american healthcare is that by tying it to employment, people become utterly dependent on their employers. They lose a lot of leverage.
How do you risk your livelihood when you have cancer or diabetes and your corporate benefits are the only way you can afford healthcare?
Not to mention, most of the american workforce is not unionized. How do you organize a strike without workers unions?
Plus, there is a precedent in recent history where congress can pass legislation making it illegal for workers to continue a strike. How that doesn’t qualify as forced labor, is beyond me.
So you see, there are many roadblocks to having an effective strike in the US, especially when the american system has been designed over the decades and centuries specifically to advance and protect the interests of the wealthy elite.
It’s not about making excuses, it’s about acknowledging the practical realities that get in the way of progress.
I won’t pretend to know your circumstances, but usually overthrowing dictators requires you to break the law. The work to make that possible starts now.
That’s practically impossible for majority of people in the USA. Even to get to Canada is a long, arduous process with lots of trips and cost associated with it if they want you.
Which about a third of America is poor, poorly educated, and might not have marketable skills. Canada also seems more focused on bringing in healthcare professionals right now.
And a lot of people outside the USA looking in don’t realize the social dynamics. I want to stop this, but a lot needs to happen first as lone wolfing just gets you labeled a terrorists and extra judicially killed.
Personality cults have trouble transitioning to a new leader. North Morea did it, but otherwise it doesn’t really happen often. One aneurysm may be all we need.
I didnt know that Morea was under a cult of personality, though I guess that did apply to some of the Marble Emperor’s in Constantinople with some of the remnants of the Imperial Cult.
The country that has spent a couple centuries dining out on its founding national mythology of knowing EXACTLY what to do somehow doesn’t know what to do.
You know what to do- you’re just a bunch of fucking cowards who are more concerned about not risking your relative comfort.
Spend your life sucking up the privilege that being an American affords you and then turn tail and run while those who can’t run have to stay and suffer.
That’s not being a coward. This country has never done anything for me, why should I do anything for it? What kind of absolute dumb fuck moron would say to themselves, I was born here, so that’s who I am, And that’s all I will ever be!
Americans know. They just don’t have any idea what to do, and no single person can solve the problem.
It might take the world… Going to war.
The world doesn’t need to go to war, it needs to stop being afraid of a major economic downturn.
Stop everything with the US: trade, travel, everything. Deport all Americans back to their native soil. Isolate them, and see how quickly things change.
While we’re at it, do the same with Russia and Israel. And maybe China?
Would it cause a global economic crisis? Probably. But people are already dying—it’s worth it if we can actually end a genocide and a couple wars.
So much this. Just 100% stop all trade with the United States. All of it. And zero travel. Then ban US travel to your country. Give them the isolation they crave.
No, definitely impose sanctions and stop trade, but don’t ban travel. Let the brain drain do its thing.
Some of us do not consent to the actions of this rogue administration, and we don’t crave isolation. Some of us desperately want a way out of this country.
While most of US manufacturing is indeed not so useful anywhere, there are things you can not stop importing.
Software and computer parts are a good example.
Moreover, what’s the problem with Americans travelling to your country?
Software can be made literally anywhere, and computer parts are made in China and other SE Asian countries anyway.
That is not the current situation.
The comment above did not say let’s focus the next 10 years to build a software stack that does not depend on US software. It said let’s immediately stop importing stuff from the US. That is not something you can in a moment substitute without massive disruption.
Computer parts are made in China and Taiwan mostly, sure. But: AMD is American, intel is American, Nvidia is American. Go build a computer without using parts coming from one of these companies.
The comment said nothing about the ban having to be this instant. They said to stop all trade. That could just as well mean, take the necessary steps to stop all trade as feasibly fast as possible. How long do you think it would take for China to be able to export computer hardware directly to the EU if the EU said tomorrow “As soon as you can supply hardware, we will stop all trade with USA”? China is the champion of accelerated manufacturing, they’d be supplying us in a couple of months.
There already is open source software solution for by FAR most software that is used. Most companies don’t actually need proprietary software from USA, they can switch very quickly, especially if they get a deadline in a month to switch everything away from Linux, 'cause then the profits are on the line.
Do you know European funds can not be used to hire Iranians because the US demanded so? I know it because I was hiring an Iranian person until I figured I could not.
Open source software does not cover most needs, and server capacity is mostly in the US. I doubt you can switch away in one month from us software, do you have open source software for safe information storage and retrieval of patient data in hospitals that complies with the regulations of all 27 states of the EU? While China can produce things, they do not have strong chip designers. If they were to produce good enough chips I guess they’d keep them for internal use for quite a while.
deleted by creator
I haven’t lived there in a decade and only maintain citizenship to have access to my parents in cases of emergency. Why on earth would you send me back to that hell-hole? All that accomplishes is destroying my family, my business, my wife’s ability to live, etc.
I don’t agree with them, but I do see the logic. Send back a bunch Americans who saw good reason to leave and perhaps they’ll be forced to try to make it more like wherever they fled to.
Or it’s just vindictive “Trump deports people so we deport people” idiocy, idk
I don’t. What are they going to do? A lot of people I know who live abroad have done so for decades and have no living family in the US. All it would do is introduce a bunch of homeless people to the US and destroy lives. I voted against the current administration and disagree with everything they do. Guess they should just make my wife homeless, get my house repossessed, destroy my career, and probably just end with me killing myself because of where I was born. Must be big fans of ICEs work, I guess.
In this hypothetical scenario, maybe you could just renounce your citizenship (and stop paying taxes to the US).
In all cases, retaliation against a fascist regime will destroy lives, but it’s generally the better option. I mean people suggest to stop trading with the US or crash their economy, this is not victimless either.
I plan to renounce but I need to be able to help my parents if they need it. Family comes first here. I do not have to pay taxes, just file them; especially with the weak Japanese yen, I don’t make enough to need to pay anything.
Honestly at this point, I rather see Americans suffer. It would humble them. My country was attacked by US & a lot my fellow citizens committed suicide due to the massive blow from tariffs.
I was too considering it.
Don’t blame the Innocents for the actions of the guilty
The innocents are easier targets, though. When the shit hits the fan, it’s always the easiest targets that get attacked.
Who’s taxpayers & whose votes ?? The OTHER side wanted a genocide too. A lot of Kamala Harris voters would have been happy with the genocide.
That’s exactly what the people being deported from the US are feeling.
The fuck does that have to do with an emigrant that hasn’t lived here in 10 years?
Indeed. It’s terrible and it’s also the reason we don’t visit family in the US (my wife is not a US citizen and barely speaks English). I do not support it, I voted against the current administration, and I have removed as many US companies as possible from my life.
Don’t deport americans. Some of us want to escape.
From an EU perspective that sounds like isolationism, I mean the USA, China, Russia, … would basically be forced to trade more between them.
It could work if selective, but we’d need the rest of the world on our side first or it’d just backfire.
Nah. Just start selling the US bonds that backs the US currency. The USD with crash in value.
Most of the people in charge don’t have their value in USD, they have it in material and speculative value. The crash of the USD will hurt everyone but them.
Crashing the USD would be its demise as the global reserve currency, which would evaporate all that speculative value overnight.
Sure, the oligarchs would still have their mansions, bunkers, and bullet-proof SUVs, but their primary source of leverage and influence would be gone. They would become irrelevant.
Would this finally cause the american population enough distress to heave themselves off their armchairs, put down their hotdogs, turn off the TV, and get out the guillotines?
No that idea died when the military became infinitely more advanced than the populace
This is the way.
deleted by creator
But when you suggest things they can do (it starts with s and rhymes with trike) all you get are excuses. I’m personally done letting Americans off the hook.
I agree, but the ability to strike in America was purposefully neutered. The only real way to strike effectively would be, at best, extra-legal, if not outright illegal. It’s not like most of the civilized world. The “leader of the free world” has made it very hard for the citizens to freely stand against it.
The only reason anybody ever had the right to legally strike was due to illegally striking. You’re not worse off than early 20th century trade unionists who literally fought private militias and the military. However, this is what ICE is going to be used for at this rate so y’all don’t have much time.
Except that the US government and corporations have spent the years since convincing the people that there’s a right way to protest, and that it’s by holding signs on a street corner - preferably out of view. This is why MLK was seen as a violent thug during the Civil Rights Movement and is seen as a hero today. Their struggle has been whitewashed to remove what actually happened and turned into an example of changing things the “right way” - by gently asking your oppressors to stop oppressing you. The US is one of the most propagandized populations on the planet. Our children pledge their undying loyalty every morning to the flag that hangs in every classroom. The only other countries on Earth to have done that are North Korea and the Hitler’s Youth program in Nazi Germany.
They’ve also gutted any form of support network for the same reason. The US populace is staunchly anti-union because companies have convinced us that worker’s rights are bad. They’ve made everybody dependent on keeping their job to keep food on the table and a roof over their head, of course, but also to see a doctor if you have a fever. And God forbid it’s anything worse than that. It’s bread and circuses with a dash of the Sword of Damocles.
So not only do we have to convince people to risk their lives to fight a fascist regime and their police force that is armed as well as many countries military, we have to convince the pearl clutchers that snarky taglines on signs aren’t going to solve things, and reconstruct support networks that haven’t existed for over half a century, and prevent the 45% of the population who support the fascists from voluntarily drafting themselves to root out any resistance, if not start shooting them in the streets. The FBI spends half their time putting down white supremacist militias. All they’d have to do is stop doing that and let the Trump regime do the rest by tweeting from the toilet at 3am. Those most likely to take up arms against the system are the same people who support the current system.
The average person isn’t brave enough to risk their life. If they were, we’d see Canadians coming down to burn down the White House again. We’d see Mexicans crossing the southern border. We’d see aid networks forming from other countries to provide support for anybody willing to resist. But we don’t and we won’t. And I don’t mean that in a “other countries should solve American problems” way, but that people in other countries are just as likely to say, “Not my fight, not my problem. Somebody else should deal with it” as Americans are. It’s human nature. If it wasn’t, we’d see more people taking out healthcare CEOs. More people would’ve supported the IRA. We’d have far more examples instead of Blair Mountain and the Haymarket Affair.
It’s easy for the armchair generals of the world to say that Americans should just arm themselves and go to war against the largest military on the planet when it isn’t their necks on the line.
Thank you. Really tired of the whole ‘do something’ when the very system, propaganda machine, and half the population is conditioned to fight their neighbors because of lies about who those neighbors are or what those neighbors believe. We have a population that will attempt a coup over a lie no one can prove with evidence, but support the side lying to them about it all when they’re told to look the other way about this regimes many crimes.
The armchair warriors around the world are tired of the inaction from Americans? Try living here and needing to fight against the fascism while half the country tries to stop you to own the libs. It’s fucking exhausting. I’ve lost friends and family to their bullshit excuses of essentially if they’re not doing anything wrong, then they have nothing to worry about. We’re fucking pissed, too, but short of calling, writing, voting, protesting, and trying to engage and help our communities, what should we do?
It needs to happen regardless, but no, we are worse off than they were. There are a lot more ways to track people, which is one major negative. Back then there weren’t a system designed to prevent and punish striking. Now there is. If it ends up happening at the scale that’s needed to make a difference then there will be fights against private militias and the government again.
Fair enough.
There was, we call it Pinkerton, among others. At least now you can organize out in the open.
There’s no nonviolent class conflict (which is what this needs to be), but the magnitude of the violence will increase exponentially with time as the fascists consolidate power.
No, you can’t. The US is so anti-union that there is a real risk of you getting reported to your boss for mentioning unionizing to your coworkers. They can’t openly fire you for trying to unionize, but most of the US is “at will employment,” which means that they can fire you at any time and don’t need to say why.
This is a real sign
Check out this article: Trump is the biggest union-buster in U.S. history
How do you strike if you’re already unemployed? So many people are already losing their jobs to automation and AI.
Also, one of the most insidious aspects of american healthcare is that by tying it to employment, people become utterly dependent on their employers. They lose a lot of leverage.
How do you risk your livelihood when you have cancer or diabetes and your corporate benefits are the only way you can afford healthcare?
Not to mention, most of the american workforce is not unionized. How do you organize a strike without workers unions?
Plus, there is a precedent in recent history where congress can pass legislation making it illegal for workers to continue a strike. How that doesn’t qualify as forced labor, is beyond me.
So you see, there are many roadblocks to having an effective strike in the US, especially when the american system has been designed over the decades and centuries specifically to advance and protect the interests of the wealthy elite.
It’s not about making excuses, it’s about acknowledging the practical realities that get in the way of progress.
To add to that yeah, there’s a lot of guns in this country. In a lot of people’s hands. Including those OKAY with all this.
And the rittenhouse case shows that in america, you can get away with shooting/murdering protesters, if you’re a white conservative.
But a liberal counter-protester bringing a gun to a trump rally? Not even white privilege will protect you at that point…
There was an antifa member who was killed by US Marshals under Trump’s first term. He wasn’t allowed to surrender, he was killed on the spot.
I and everyone I know is one missed paycheck away from homelessness.
I won’t pretend to know your circumstances, but usually overthrowing dictators requires you to break the law. The work to make that possible starts now.
Fucking shoot me then
Mrdown
Lmao.
One person just about did.
American hero Tommy “iron sights” Crooks?
More like Tommy “crooked sights” Irons
That doesn’t make any sense.
Of course it does.
That’s a big part of their problem. They keep thinking about individual actions instead of coming together and acting as a group toward a common goal.
Remember what Obama did to Occupy Wall Street? That’s what happens when Americans organize. It’s only worse now.
Yeah well we had “No Kings” and people came together, yet nothing happened. A few million people showed up and then went home.
That’s part of the problem.
Effective protesting isn’t a “one and done” thing.
I agree. And that is why the US is done for. No one is willing to stay until we get what we want… and want is subjective.
Best to pack up and move to another country if they can.
That’s practically impossible for majority of people in the USA. Even to get to Canada is a long, arduous process with lots of trips and cost associated with it if they want you.
Well, being a desirable person does help the process. If you’ll be a drain on their economy, you’re not likely to be accepted.
Which about a third of America is poor, poorly educated, and might not have marketable skills. Canada also seems more focused on bringing in healthcare professionals right now.
That’s how I’m jumping the line. 😅🏥
No Kings was an absolute fucking joke from the start and everyone there virtue signaling is part of the problem.
Well, I said that back then and everyone on here ripped me a new one 🤷♂️
And a lot of people outside the USA looking in don’t realize the social dynamics. I want to stop this, but a lot needs to happen first as lone wolfing just gets you labeled a terrorists and extra judicially killed.
Organizing also gets you labeled as terrorists. Just ask CAIR, and soon many others.
True enough, but it’s harder to deal with a movement that would be guerilla in its execution compared to going out blasting in a blaze of glory.
Personality cults have trouble transitioning to a new leader. North Morea did it, but otherwise it doesn’t really happen often. One aneurysm may be all we need.
We won’t be so lucky. He’s dying in his 90s
I didnt know that Morea was under a cult of personality, though I guess that did apply to some of the Marble Emperor’s in Constantinople with some of the remnants of the Imperial Cult.
Yes I know you meant the Norks.
Any of the SS guys could solve it pretty quick
The country that has spent a couple centuries dining out on its founding national mythology of knowing EXACTLY what to do somehow doesn’t know what to do.
You know what to do- you’re just a bunch of fucking cowards who are more concerned about not risking your relative comfort.
I’m leaving the country. I’m not helping these people.
As I said- cowards.
Spend your life sucking up the privilege that being an American affords you and then turn tail and run while those who can’t run have to stay and suffer.
That’s not being a coward. This country has never done anything for me, why should I do anything for it? What kind of absolute dumb fuck moron would say to themselves, I was born here, so that’s who I am, And that’s all I will ever be!
You sound like a white MAGA chud talking about how white privilege doesn’t exist.
lol.