NDP once again proving to be the only ally the working class has
Which is why it’s sad that the Liberals got a majority government now. But it is still thin so maybe some deals will still need to be made.
I voted NDP for both federal and provincial elections in Ontario in 2025. My region voted a majority conservative… We have an oaf in office, Douggie Ford. I talked to someone online from Ontario, and he was just racist, and said he would vote conservative. I feel like I am alone for wanting change.
I think the silver lining to this is that whatever they do from here can’t be written off as concessions to avoid a non-confidence vote. They own everything from here, including whatever the floor-crossers do next. Perhaps Carney announcing “AI for all” is going to be the start of their downfall if they don’t stop ignoring what most Canadians want prioritized.
Dawg if Marilyn Gladu becomes some sort of kingmaker in this current parliament I’m actually gonna crash out.
After the by-election, Carney can afford to lose a floor crosser if they prove to be too incompatible.
[Sad Green noises]
And honestly the Bloc and Liberals too. They just disagree about how to get there.
The Conservatives are more like allies of working class bigotry.
No. The Liberals have been neo-liberal for quite a long time now. Never really representing the working class.
Right now with their capitalistic leader, they might as well be true blue conservative.
Then the actual Conservatives aren’t (which TBH is a completely valid interpretation).
Even if we rule out the Liberals, it still leaves the Bloc and Greens. This community is big on the NDP, but it doesn’t seem like that’s because of policy.
What are you saying? I don’t understand your point.
First, the current Conservatives have become a far right moral conservative party that’s against equal rights, encourage traditional gender roles, and are against women’s reproductive rights. While the Liberals have become the new progressive conservatives. (Fiscally conservative, but support equal rights, etc)
The current conservative party was formed by the merging on the old Reform and Progressive Conservative parties. We’re basically back to that time, sans the old true Liberal option basically.
And with Avi Lewis, the NDP are going to be supporting the workers and the middle class and become a much more progressive and left wing party.
What are you saying? I don’t understand your point.
Basically just that “NDP once again proving to be the only ally the working class has” is wrong. (Emphasis own)
First, the current Conservatives have become a far right moral conservative party that’s against equal rights, encourage traditional gender roles, and are against women’s reproductive rights.
I mean, that’s a sample of the things you most disagree with. If you look at their own channels it’s not what they talk about the most, though. It’s typical fascist stuff. Down with the educated elite, more money for ordinary white Anglos by cutting off greedy minorities. Even if it’s horrible, their voters are more predominantly working class than any other party’s.
The LPC consistently weighed on the side of corporations in the major labour disputes over the last few years. They’re friends of the working class insofar as - they improve conditions for corporations and … something good is supposed to happen to workers as a result. Which is just anti-worker trickle down economics that’s lead us to where we are today over the decades it’s been practiced. I hoped for some change in direction on labour diaputes with Carney but so far it’s been more of the same.
It would be pretty interesting to see what the NDP would do with a nation-paralysing strike if they were in power. There’s lots of reasons why any current government hates that and wants it to stop. Edit: Even if they believe it’s bad in general and in the long term.
If you look at the policies that get passed at Liberal conventions, it tells another story. Trudeau added a tax on the very rich in his first term. The Conservatives would never have made the same deal with the NDP as he did in his last term…
I guess, do they have to do exactly what you would, to be considered pro-worker?
There are two ways to break a nation-crippling strike. Take an action that benefits the workers or take an action that benefits the corporation (exec/owner). The libs took actions that benefit the respective corporations. They could have instead broken the strike by stepping in on the side of workers which would have made the workers better off and broken the strike. (And earn them a lot of organic votes.)
I’ve never made the argument that the libs are the same as the reformacons and I maxed out my contribution limits to help them take power instead of PP. That doesn’t change that on the labour file they don’t act in my general interest, instead they help my boss. I should tell you a story abt how I explained a Jira epic to a gov’t lawyer so that my employer could get a subsidy. We had record profits that year.
E:
They could have instead broken the strike by stepping in on the side of workers which would have made the workers better off and broken the strike. (And earn them a lot of organic votes.)
BTW, given how popular such action tends to be if you’re not asking yourself why don’t they do it, you probably should. I began doing it over the last few years and it’s cleared up a lot of seemingly confusing things they do.
E2: Also have been on the Trudeau train almost till the end.
Okay, so sure. They’re more pro-worker then the Conservatives, but not as much as the NDP or Greens, by any reasonable metric.
I guess you could pass a you-must-accept-the-worker’s-terms legislation, although the company would have options there, including just deciding to close.
Should I ask about Jira, or would that be a self-dox?
Avoiding as much self-dox as possible:
It’s a well known American private (as-in non gov’t, but publicly traded) corpo with a Canadian sub. There’s this R&D tax credit/subsidy that’s supposed to fund novel R&D. You show novel work to the gov’t, the gov’t gives you money. I’m leading the design/dev of this software feature that’s just … a required feature for our system to do what it needs to do. It required some digging into AOSP to figure out how to do it. Something we regularly do since we develop an Android system component. We finish the feature. Lo and behold comes my boss with a corpo lawyer and says - hey look this lawyer here think this qualifies for this R&D program. We go over it. A month later the same conversation repeats before a gov’t lawyer who approves it. We did not discover an algorithm, or create something of any significant novelty, no value beyond saving cost for this corpo. We did something that many other teams do regularly. Turns out, the corpo has a whole team that asks managers regularly to submit “novel R&D work” to get subsidy money and this happens throughout the org like a clockwork. Again, this is a profitable corporation.
Wow, that is a pretty low bar. Technically, you did do some research and develop something, I guess.
I wonder if it’s as easy for a startup or individual to apply. If not, there’s the bad environment for innovation and competition you hear about.
Nor sure why you’re thinking about nation-breaking strikes. What makes you think there’s anywhere even remotely enough support for one?
To me that’s like asking what the NDP would do if earth was invaded by hostile aliens from Alpha Centauri. I know a lot of people on Lemmy like to fantasize about these massive worker uprisings but the truth is most people are way too content and have way too much to lose for that.
The conditions of modern Canadian life, as expensive as everything is, are just about a million times more luxurious than early 20th century Russia. People have abundant food, shelter, clothing, electronics, and entertainment out the wazoo. Most working class people these days work service jobs which may be boring or frustrating but they’re far better than working in a logging camp, on a farm, on a fishing boat, in a steel mill, or on an oil rig. People are warm and comfortable with air conditioning and regular breaks.
I said nation-paralysing, it’s an important difference. If Canada post had just stayed shut down, life would not have ended, but ooh boy would people (read voters) be annoyed their packages can’t arrive the normal way, and the the markets might go down which also makes people very upset.
The conditions of modern Canadian life, as expensive as everything is, are just about a million times more luxurious…
Yes, absolutely. And yet modern Western people complain like they’re in Aushwitz, or something, especially if that AC goes down for a bit. Like it or not, that’s what politicians have to work with. This is a democracy.
The Canada Post strike was annoying but I’d hardly call it nation-paralyzing. Most people barely receive any mail as it is. It was most troublesome for elderly people who still rely a lot on the mail.
A nation-paralyzing strike would be a strike by all truck drivers which would lead to empty shelves in grocery stores. That would really affect people in a serious way.
I wouldn’t worry too much about people complaining. People always find things to complain about. I work in a mail room and we get angry letters all the time because we send mail to people who have moved but not updated their address in their account. People get ridiculously angry at the thought that we might actually take a while to update our records when someone moves!
It was most troublesome for elderly people who still rely a lot on the mail.
Well, elderly people also vote the most, and some of them are poor and sympathetic and will go on the media.
The Air Canada strike is another recent example, if you don’t like that one.
I wouldn’t worry too much about people complaining. People always find things to complain about.
Sure, we shouldn’t. It’s basically your whole job to worry if you’re an politician in a democracy, though, and it’s whoever’s in government at the moment that gets blamed. (Even if everything goes fine people will eventually hate you!)
Price discrimination is also bad for the economy, FYI. This is one of those policies few people can really disagree with, like UBI. It also may or may not happen, because it’s wonkish but radical, like UBI.
Is the NDP website incredibly slow to load for anyone else? Unexpected traffic?
Since surveillance pricing mostly punishes higher earners, I thought it was good for socialist purposes.
Only if the money circulates back into the economy here rather than being tied up in some exec’s offshore bank account. Plus, “higher” earners doesn’t mean high earners—the burden will disproportionately end up falling on nominally middle-class people who don’t have time to shop around.
I think those factors you mention depend on the specific store, not on whether it uses surveillance pricing.
That’s not quite true. A firm wants to sell at a higher price to a customer who can afford it but also sell at a lower price (above cost) to one who can’t afford the “regular price” but would buy it cheaper, thus maximizing profit both via margin and volume. There’s nothing socialist about it.
While surveillance pricing maximizes profit for the business owner, which is optimized capitalism, it also reduces the gap between wealthier buyers and poorer buyers, which is a socialist purpose. So we’re making a distinction here between business owners, wealthier buyers and poorer buyers. Now I don’t know how and where exactly left-leaning parties are looking to reduce the wealth gaps these days. The gap with business owners or the gap with wealthier buyers? Both I suppose, but with surveillance pricing, there’s a tradeoff.
Comrade, socialism isn’t about reducing wealth inequality within the classes who get paid for their labour. Whether that’s labour done for a decent salary or minimum hourly wage. Socialism is about people getting paid what the businesd owners withold above what people get paid. Tackling intra-working class wealth equality is a misc matter for socialism or perhaps a communist matter that is counterproductive to tackle before we’ve gotten our surplus value back.
E: But I do understand your point about how algo pricing can provide more product to wider parts of society by essentially flattening their purchase power and therefore real incomes. That’s actually a very interesting perspective. If we didn’t have the other problem I mentioned this could be interesting to consider as a way to distribute produced goods and services.
Yes, “flattening purchase power” is how I would summarize socialism in a few words. Because many working class people actually do make more than many small business owners. Based on an NDP business owner and other people I know.
There are currently 6 NDP members in the house, and the NDP leader isn’t even one of those six.
If this were anything other than performative, they’d be working with the government on a law.
I really wish the Canadian 2-party duopoly was broken and a third party (ideally the NDP) had a realistic chance of winning elections. But, IMO, performative stuff designed for social media likes isn’t going to convince anybody that the NDP should be in charge of the country.
Of course it’s performative and the audience of the performance is potential NDP voters as well as LPC and CPC voters. Why do you think this performance is worse than any other campaing method? To me it’s Avi using whatever platform he’s got to beam the message we voted for, whch we think others would find compelling.
On the value of talking to people, I think building popular support for policy is very important. If you get 60-80% of Canadians to want a policy, whoever’s in power would be pressed into implementing it. I think the technocratic approach we’ve practiced over the last several decades where we outsource policy to politicians who we vote for every few years isn’t working too well. In some areas it’s even undermined democracy by creating wide disparities between what people want and what ends up being done by the elected politicians. Cough … voter reform … cough.
Focusing on laws alone did not work too well for the previous NDP. Avi’s looking to create a bottom-up approach where we get policy from people and socialize them to the ones who aren’t as engaged in order to create demand for this policy, offer ourselves as implementer of this policy. But if the demand we created is strong, it wouldn’t matter much if we’re the ones implementing it. Bottom-up democracy as opposed to top-down.
Show me that it is already in place first, before banning it.
Do you wait until there’s a fire to buy an extinguisher?
Especially since if they learn that your house is on fire they will raise the price on you.
That’s where we are heading in the US, privatized fire, they will be bringing back the firesale. Hopefully the private equity guys that get involved with it meet Crassus’ fate, the Roman prick that popularized the practice around the 1st century. (He financed an expidition to persia, lost, got captured, they are said to have poured molten gold down his throat, because they knew how much he liked gold.)
Old timey values.
No. But I am hep to the old “sky is falling” schtick. This will save time and money on labour when it comes to price changes. Everything else is conjecture, and believable, due to all the other dystopic capitalistic shit that goes on. I will wait a bit longer before grabbing my torch and pitchfork and jumping on the bandwagon.
Electronic labels have already existed for ages. Canadian Tire has flashing labels that tell you where things are. This is literally just legal price fixing, there’s no benefits to the consumer
Why? It’s already in place in the US. Preemptively banning the practice here makes 100% sense.
What? Why?
Yea seriously. What actual benefit would there be to consumers by allowing individualized pricing? Certainly not lower prices.
As you stand there and wait for that digital price on that item to lower, because you figured out if you wait, the price will drop slowly, you can watch an ad while you wait and knock off additional pricing!
Then our lives are people standing around in grocery stores waiting for prices to drop, and those that can’t afford the time, will pay the fast premium price!
Then when all the prices and this practice normalizes… you compare to what it used to be like.
And the prices we pay now requires wait 2+ min per item… and more money and profits go to the corporations as a whole.
Manitoba already preemptively banned this practice. Why not go nation-wide with it?
There was a consumer reports investigation that uncovered discriminatory pricing through instacart if memory serves. It’s coming, and retailers dream of digital price tags connected to their cctv networks that id you and deliver prices based on whatever criteria they choose.
It’s done by Temu and AliExpress, too. Not sure how much power the Canadian government has on direct-from-China online storefronts, but it’s already happening to Canadians, if not by Canadian businesses.
